Coordinating Transit for Downtown Culture

Red Cars. Trolleys. Hello? Is this thing on?

The Red Car revival proposal has a hot-and-cold interest within downtown L.A. On slow news days, the story gets trotted out, but there’s no urgency in implementing the plan.

The proposal sounds like a regional bus network from remote areas to the cultural venues.

The problem with the proposal, though, is that the study should reveal why Hollywood Bowl’s bus arrangement is so successful: it’s because the Bowl only has half the parking available on-site. These become full, and it’s necessary to run buses from everywhere so that they don’t drive to Hollywood and find out no parking is available.

The issue is scarcity, not convenience.

The Hollywood Bowl buses are very popular, but half of the Bowl crowd doesn’t have a choice in driving to the Bowl.

Dare I mention that there should be an infill Hollywood Bowl station constructed on the Red Line?

It would only be open on show days/nights. From the station, an underground pedestrian tunnel of about 1500-2000 feet would lead right to the Bowl entrance. And yes, that would be shorter than the current walk from Hollywood/Highland, up Highland Avenue to the Bowl.

Cost: I dunno. How much does a subway station cost? 10 million? 20 million? Maybe it could come from the Parks budget or the agency that runs the Bowl.

As far as Disney Hall goes, if they build the Downtown Connector, there could be a station right under Disney Hall or the Dorothy Chandler.

How about more taxis?

I am constantly shocked by how hard it is to find a taxi in Downtown L.A., esp. during events like the Opera or Last Remaining Seats.

Yes yes, I know, there are taxi stands. But most of these stands are very inconveniently located.

In every other major city (well, at least in SF, NYC, Chicago), taxis are constantly roaming, looking for fares. But not here. It seems like you have to call a taxi company to get one. Maybe better coordination between event organizers and the taxi companies would help.

Would love to get to the Bowl via mass transit. But for those of us who live south of the Bowl (Koreatown, Mid-city, Crewnshaw etc.), the buses don’t work for us unless we drive to culver city to pick them up. And even if they did stop closer, it is a lot more expensive than the subway or metro bus system. (Price isn’t an issue if you are single, but if you are coming with a family, 5 bus tickets costs a lot more than a parking pass for the Bowl.)

It was a mistake years ago to run the subway under Runyon Canyon rather than under Highland Avenue. Any subway stop now would have to be located way inside the Bowl’s property, rather than on Highland. (That said, I suppose they could still build it and the trains would bypass the station when the Bowl is not in session.) Parking and taking the subway would be cheaper and more convenient than either driving or taking the bowl bus.

Has the issue of extended hours on Metro rail been considered? IF you’re looking to take the Gold line to Pasadena after an event at Disney Hall, you’ll be sweating through the last part of the performance for fear of missing the last train and being stranded at Union Station.

Has anyone seen whether or not plans for the Grand Avenue project will connect the Civic Center Red Line stop with Grand Avenue using escalators? While this might be a ‘no-brainer’ given the proximity and grade, it’s best not to take anything for granted.

I think I recall the cost of subway stations being measured in hundreds of millions, this is why we don’t see them for single destinations. It would be cheaper to build multi-level parking and buy everyone who goes to the bowl a car.

Joel C. wrote:

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<i>I am constantly shocked by how hard it is to find a taxi in Downtown L.A., esp. during events like the Opera or Last Remaining Seats.</I>

Go into the nearest hotel. Taxis in downtown generally congregate near hotels.

Well, they do have telephone numbers and dispatchers for that very purpose. Oddly enough, calling that number might result in a cab arriving.

Wad wrote: “Go into the nearest hotel. Taxis in downtown generally congregate near hotels.”

Thanks for the obvious. If you know of a hotel with taxis within reasonable walking distance of Broadway, I’d like to know about it.

Every year, the L.A. Conservancy shows films at the Broadway movie palaces. Coming out of “Rebel Without A Cause” last year was an eye opening experience. Hundreds of people exited the theater onto Broadway, and many, many people waited for cabs that in any other major city would be driving the streets looking for fares. Not here.

I guess the lesson is: either carry a taxi company’s phone number around with you (only three cab companies serve downtown), or drive.

Regarding Tim Quinn’s comment on the cost of a subway station being in the hundreds of millions:

The price always quoted is $300 million PER MILE to contruct heavy rail. The cost of adding a station along a line already built would be considerably less. (Sidenote: When they built the red line, there was talk of adding a station, when needed, between MacArthur Park and the 7th Street station. Back then, that area was called Central City West and it was supposed to develop into another downtown.)

Anyway, since the subway was going to connect Hollywood and North Hollywood, it would NOT have added hundred of millions to the cost had a station been built on Highland just north of Franklin. Additionally, it would have served the Bowl as well as residents in the many apartments nearby.

Sadly, that stop is not an option because instead of tunneling under Highland, the subway goes under Runyon Canyon. Now unfortunately, an added station would be inside Bowl property and could only be used by bowl patrons. Because of this, adding a station would not be a wise investment of limited transit dollars.

One more thing: The routing of this portion of the subway (under Highland or under Runyon Canyon) resulted in a legal battle with Universal. Had it gone under Highland, not only could we have had a Hollywood Bowl stop, but Universal wanted a stop at the top of the hill for their amusement park. Lawsuits followed, and we got the Runyon canyon route. Much less traffic disruption during construction, but much less ridership than a Highland Avenue route would have had.

You are most welcome.

The Biltmore is on Olive Avenue, west of Pershing Square. The Checkers Hotel is on Grand, three blocks east of Broadway. And if you can get to Figueroa Street, go to the Wilshire Grand or the Bonaventure. Taxis aplenty at both.

Even at night, Seventh Street has relatively frequent bus service provided by 26/51/52 and 60. A bus is a lot safer than walking.

Or, get on the subway at Pershing Square and take it to 7th St./Metro Center, and exit at Figueroa to get to the hotels, or Union Station, where there’s a horde of taxis.

That’s because cabbies would rather stalk the airport, Union Station or the Greyhound Terminal for a big fare. Taxi cabbing is a modern form of sharecropping, and the poor immigrant cabbies have to turn over hundreds of dollars A DAY to the cab company for being allowed the privilege to drive. And on top of paying for their own gas, insurance, license and vehicle, they work most of the day to take home maybe enough for a meal at Denny’s.

It’s not in the cabbies’ interest to troll for fares when an airport trip could pay most of the overhead and cab comapny vigorish.

According to http://www.taxicabsla.org/, seven licensed cab companies serve Region C, which includes downtown. Here are the names and numbers:

United Independent Taxi (Los Angeles & Beverly Hills) (213) 483-7660 or (310) 821-1000 or (800) 411-0303 Comments/Complaints (213) 483-7669, Ext. 3029

Yellow Cab (310 or 213) 808-1000 or (800) 200-1085 Comments/Complaints (310) 715-1968

Bell Cab (Los Angeles) (888) 235-5222 or (800) 666-6664 Comments/Complaints (800) 830-0551

Beverly Hills Cab Company (Los Angeles & Beverly Hills) (310 or 800) 273-6611 Comments/Complaints (310) 837-0260

Checker Cab (Los Angeles & West Hollywood) (310 or 800) 300-5007 Comments/Complaints (310) 330-3720

City Cab (818) 252-1600 or (800) 750-4400 Comments/Complaints (818) 252-1670

Independent Taxi (323) 666-0050 or (800) 521-8294 Comments/Complaints (323) 666-0050

Add these numbers to your cell phone. It also helps to call one cab company frequently, as your name is kept in a database and taxis will come to you if they know you’re a reliable company.

Wad, the topic here is how to make Downtown’s venues more transit-friendly. Do you have an opinion on this subject? Do you believe the problem exists? If so, what is your proposed solution?

I believe it makes sense to improve mobility in Downtown via transit and other options. I think one way to do this is to improve taxi service, which, in my opinion, is poor.

You seem to expect that visitors to Downtown should either wander the streets looking for a hotel with a taxi stand, or research cab companies and carry around their phone numbers. Are you kidding me?

Getting a cab isn’t a problem in the CBDs of San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Paris, Montreal, or any number of more mature urban areas I’ve lived in or visited. If you want people to take transit to Downtown L.A., it just makes sense to make it easy to get around once you get here.

I believe there is a LAW (probably city of LA ordinance) that Taxis are NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED to stop and pick up fares on the street.

That’s right. It was some stupid-ass politician’s idea, supposedly to keep traffic moving.

Taxis are allowed to stop at designated Taxi Stands, which are, yes, near Hotels. Otherwise, you gotta call them up.

I’m sure taxi drivers would LOVE to pick up fares on demand, but THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO SO. Isn’t that retarded? Call your city council person about this.

Has anyone tried FlexCar, how does it work ? Could that be a future transit option for people in South Park ?

Joel C. wrote: <i>Wad, the topic here is how to make Downtown’s venues more transit-friendly. Do you have an opinion on this subject? Do you believe the problem exists? If so, what is your proposed solution?</I>

Personally, I think a cultural venue shuttle system is unnecessary. I pointed out that Hollywood Bowl’s service is a necessity, since there is inadequate parking at the Bowl and buses are the only way to accommodate everyone. Downtown has plenty of parking, not only at the venues themselves but at all the other lots throughout the central city.

This is also a city matter that would be handled by LADOT, not Metro.

And, if you are interested in more information about things transit, please visit the site I contribute to, MetroRiderLA (URL provided).

I agree with you about the poor state of taxi service in Los Angeles. But laws aren’t going to make things any better.

Los Angeles has a citywide cap of about 1,500 taxis meted out between the 9 licensed companies. The number is not the problem.

The big problem is that <b>it is not in the financial interest of cab drivers</B> to troll around for fares. Cabbies must buy their own Crown Victoria, pay their license, insurance and gas, and on top of that, pay a three-figure vigorish to the cab companies they drive for every day. They would much rather wait in a queue at the airport or Union Station and take a big fare rather than several short-distance rides. No city ordinance can improve this.

No. I would reasonably expect visitors to do a little bit of research into areas they are visiting.

I would like to think Angelenos are not functionally retarded and would use a little thing known outside of Southern California as common sense.

People should be able to solve their problems, even something as trivial as this, by themselves by using just a wee bit of thought.

Some solutions:

1. If you know the time your show lets out, call a taxi ahead of time to arrive when it finishes.
2. Go the high-tech route, and program the numbers into your e-gizmo. Or, go the low-tech route and take a map, L.A. guide or a piece of paper with the numbers and locations of hotels.
3. Call the box office before your show and ask what transportation options are available post-event.

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<i>Getting a cab isn't a problem in the CBDs of San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Paris, Montreal, or any number of more mature urban areas I've lived in or visited.</I>

If the cabs were so great in those cities … umm, why did you leave?

But, it’s not the fault of planners if customers cannot properly think out their options.

With so many channels of information available, be it print, internet or verbal, ignorance is a lame excuse.

Public transit is what Los Angeles should start seriously focusing on, as it is one of the VERY FEW options remaining, in order to relieve enormous congestion. Specifically, building a Subway is critical, because it will be a fast, reliabie alternative, with no interfering with above-the-ground traffic flow. Its expensive investment is well-worth its goal. So, let’s do everything possible to build a reliable and efficient network of Subway in Los Angeles!

If I recall correctly, the original RTD subway proposal which had the subway running up Fairfax and dogleg back into Hollywood, actually had a Hollywood Bowl subway station. The proposal was to build a large park n’ ride structure there so that the subway station could be used during the day. However, when Ross Dress for Less blew up and the route was changed to go up Vermont the right turn into the Valley was too tight to have both a Highland Ave station and a Hollywood Bowl station.

Los Angeles is a call for a cab town so most taxis without fares are on their way to a pick-up they have been dispatched to and thus do not stop for fares on the street. I do not believe there is any law prohibiting taxis from picking up along the street so long as it is safe. There are laws against Bandit Taxis which are not licensed (and thus regulated).

I realize this isn’t related to day to day public transportation within downtown – but I don’t see the Flyaway mentioned. For $3, you can walk, bike or cab it to Union Station and take a shuttle all the way to the airport. That would be at least a $40 cab ride or more if you drove yourself and parked overnight for several days. Yet every time I take the Flyaway (at least once a month), it is almost empty. Very few downtown residents use it and that is a shame.

I’ve used the LAX Flyaway Shuttle a few times and found it quite busy. However, if you take it more often, I can’t dispute your experience.

Regardless, I didn’t think my fellow passengers were downtowners, but visitors and tourists. I think this underscores the fact downtowners are like other Angelenos and typically are drive most everywhere even when public transit options are available. If you don’t ride the Red Line or take the Rapid buses, it is harder to imagine the value of the LAX Flyaway shuttle.

Wad wrote: "And, if you are interested in more information about things transit, please visit the site I contribute to, MetroRiderLA (URL provided)."

I probably know more about transit and urban planning issues than you do, so you can get off the superiority soapbox. Contributing to a blog doesn’t make you an expert in anything: it just means you have an interest coupled with more free time than most people have.

Let me see if I can explain it one last time. Should I use smaller words?

The issue is not people’s ability to figure out their way home. I would guess most people can figure out how to get home after a show.

The question is: can something be done to better coordinate transit options in DTLA, in order to encourage transit use?

The truth (however hard it is for you to swallow) is that getting a taxi in Downtown L.A. is less convenient than in other CBDs.

Why does stating this obvious fact bother you so much? Do you have some sort of personal stake here?

Ah, the “love it or leave it” argument. The classic argument made from a point of weakness.

I’ll turn your question around: is your decision to live in Los Angeles based on the high quality of the taxi service? (Do you see what an absurd argument that is?)

I love L.A. and am one of its biggest boosters. I spend a good portion of my time and money trying to make a positive difference in Downtown L.A. It is in that spirit that I am putting forth my opinion.

You, on the other hand, seem intent on not just disagreeing with me but questioning my competence and/or love of my city. So I ask: what is your motive? Why has my opinion gotten under your skin so deep?

Joel C wrote: I probably know more about transit and urban planning issues than you do, so you can get off the superiority soapbox.

Then demonstrate it.

I have provided a URL where not only you, but anyone else, can go for transit information. I have also explained why taxicabs do not troll for fares in downtown Los Angeles. Twice.

And MetroRider provides information, analysis, opinion and awareness of transit options. Your comments notwithstanding, I’m not turning this discussion into a pissing contest.

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<i>Contributing to a blog doesn't make you an expert in anything: it just means you have an interest coupled with more free time than most people have.</I>

Personally, I shy away from the “expert” label. I happen to know a great deal about transportation issues, and share it with the public. “Expert,” though, is heavy-handed even for me.

But, challenge the veracity of what I write. A blog, in and of itself, is not automatically false. If you maintain anything I have said is false, contradict me.

Here are some facts on the downtown situation:

Los Angeles Department of Transportation has conducted an analysis of its DASH routes in downtown and around the city, and is now in the process of formulating routes. (The public participation process has passed a long time ago, but there will be a public hearing a few months before the routes are changed. No date is set.)

The DASH routes in downtown are going to be restructured from their present configuration. One strong possibility is to provide service later at night. Plans are to extend service from 7 p.m. to at least 9 or 10 p.m., maybe even later.

Metro is restructuring its own routes, in a scheme called Metro Connections. Metro is planning to convert routes to hub-and-spoke. Downtown remains a focal point of regional transit service, but the serious overhaul of routes has not happened yet. Rapid buses will pretty much remain the same, but locals might get broken up, likely on the ends of the route outside of downtown.

These studies, though, are conducted independently. Metro only has the authority to plan and modify its own routes; it cannot touch LADOT’s routes. And neither agency has to follow through with recommendations from the other entity.

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<i>The truth (however hard it is for you to swallow) is that getting a taxi in Downtown L.A. is less convenient than in other CBDs.</I>

I agree with you about taxis being less convenient. So, was it necessary for you to insert the “hard to swallow” comment?

I use the taxis, and I have noticed that taxis congregate near hotels or Union Station. If I needed a cab, I’d go to those areas.

And since everyone reading this now knows that taxis congregate near hotels or Union Station, they’ll likely go to these locations if they need a cab. Or, they can consult the list of phone numbers I provided for the seven licensed cab companies serving downtown and call ahead for a taxi pickup.

Whatever deficiency there is in the system, I posted ways for people to get their cabs without the need for city ordinances or politicans’ intervention. The problem can be solved now, the visionary stuff can be figured out later.

Personal in the interest of having a good transportation system. I don’t have any financial stake in the matter.

That’s exactly the point I was making.

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<i>You, on the other hand, seem intent on not just disagreeing with me but questioning my competence and/or love of my city. So I ask: what is your motive? Why has my opinion gotten under your skin so deep?</I>

I don’t make assumptions about anyone, and I don’t know you outside of what I read, nor will I try to figure you out or further engage in what is becoming a pointless argument.

And don’t give yourself way too much credit over your opinion getting under my skin. It hasn’t. I’m just not giving in to your insults. You probably don’t even recognize you have become very emotional in your posts.

I have provided telephone numbers for taxicab companies, and explained why taxis do not troll around for fares. Use that as you see fit.

The matter is now closed.

I think that 17% is a great number. As time goes on you will see more and more people not using their car to get to work. i think we won’t really have a choice. The tourism industry in most major cities will change along with daily culture. maybe bicycle tours will be the next big fad to take when vacationing. Bicycle taxi’s are still very popular in warmer cities. I recently took a bicycle taxi in downtown Orland FL and it was amazing.

Personally, I think there outta be a maglev train between Disney Hall and Pete’s Cafe.