sto on April 16, 2007, at 08:47AM – #1

i was also woken up the other night around the same time from people exiting that club. I heard a conflict on the street so I looked out my window and saw a man being held back by his friends after trying to fight another man.

Seems that the noise always comes from all the drunk people leaving the club at 2 in the morning. I dont know if there is much of a solution to that but I'm not too worried about it. The people that wake me up more than anything are the rabid bums that wander down the street screaming obscenities in the middle of the night.

Fred Camino on April 16, 2007, at 08:53AM – #2

"But that said, this is a residential neighborhood."

In my opinion, that's not true, this is a mixed-use neighborhood, not a residential neighborhood. The whole point of living "downtown" is that it's not a the suburbs - it's an urban area where everything is going on at all times due to the dense mixed-use infrastructure. In fact, your reaction is the reason the suburbs exist.

Sure, the downtown LA we are used to, at least in modern times, is quite a sleepy place after 7pm. Save for the occasional movie helicopter and the occasional (okay nightly, where I live) parking attendant party, this place is quiet as a mouse. When I lived in Hollywood, on a low-rise/single-family street just off the boulevard, it was much louder all night. Police helicopters, sirens, traffic noise, etc. all part of the "urban" experience of living in a non-downtown area in Los Angeles. Are the new residents at the Hollywood/Vine development going to complain about all the already established nightlife and nightly (especially weekend) noise from clubbers and revelers? I sure hope not, they chose to live in what was marketed to them as "the urban lifestyle". And of course, we must talk about people who live in the ultimate downtown, New York City, I'm sure you've spent some time there and are aware of the constant noise.

It's just like the movie industry... they were used to their sleepy little downtown, vacant after 7 and on the weekends... yet now they have to contend with the fact that downtown is finally coming to life. Will those very residents who get upset because "downtown is a place where real people live-work-and-play, not a movie set", start getting upset when the "24-hour" downtown that they dreamed of starts to come true? We are dreaming of (and currently developing) a place filled with restaurants, bars, nightclubs, venues, theaters, museums, shops, taxis, late-night transit, and residents, all in a very condensed and vertical area. If this is not actually what you want, then yes, your headline is very true: be careful what you wish for, because it's coming true.

We have to ask ourselves, did we move downtown for the peace and quiet, or for the hope of living a true urban experience? The answer is important, because I believe those two choices are mutually exclusive.

Michael on April 16, 2007, at 09:39AM – #4

I've got the same problem by my place. For now, I'm just looking for a better way to insulate my windows to block out the noise.

Fred Camino on April 16, 2007, at 09:44AM – #5

E-

It's a tough call. I mean as I see it, mixed-use means the night club has just as much a right to operate (as night clubs operate, drunk revelers and all) as we have to go to sleep. If we both have equal rights... one to be loud and one to be asleep, what can be done? Sure, you could go down their and ask nicely, or talk to the club owners, but it seems unlikely that will make any difference, because the nature of a night club business means loud drunk people late at night. And I'd imagine that's the response you'd get from the proprietors.

It's just that it seems anything short of not allowing the night club to operate will not solve the problem... and I don't think that's the right answer. Sure signs could be posted, "Residential Area: Please Be Respectful", but how likely is it that a bunch of wasted party goers are going to care? They'll probably get louder once they read the sign. A bouncer telling them to quiet down? A recipe for more loudness...aka bouncer vs. drunk patron argument. So short of saying "Not in my backyard!" it seems to me the solution is to deal with it internally (somehow block your window? wear ear plugs?) and just take it as part of the urban mixed-use environment we are developing.

But this is just my perspective, I'm sure others will have other viewpoints that may offer a more postive solution.

Fred Camino on April 16, 2007, at 09:50AM – #6

Also, from a personal perspective...

I mentioned in my first comment about "parking lot attendant parties". My loft is on the edge of the South Park area and surrounded on 3 sides by parking lots (ahh Downtown LA). Grand Avenue club is down the street, as is the Golden Gopher and some other bars. I have a feeling a lot of patrons park in these lots. Whether it's the patrons or the parking lot attendants, nearly every night, light at night (past midnight, some times to 3 or 4 in the morning), there will be parking lot parties. LOUD Mexican music blasting from cars, hooting and hollering, honking, just all kinds of fun. In addition, I like to sleep with my windows open. At first it was hard, but it's quite amazing how fast the human body adapts (the parking lot also has a large light which fills the loft at night, I thought it would make it impossible to sleep, after a week I sleep as if it was pitch black). So if this is relatively new, it may very well just blend it to the ambient noise of your sleep after a week or two. That's what happened to me.

Nico on April 16, 2007, at 10:37AM – #7

I am in complete agreement with Fred. I think that the nature of living in a true urban environment is that you're likely to hear noise at all hours, day and night.

Robert on April 16, 2007, at 11:43AM – #8

I live in South Park down the street from the Grand Ave Club and near J's on Olive. Both do good business but there is a definite difference in the level of noise with regards to the patrons or who is promoting an event at one of these places. I'm not saying one club is better or worse then the other, my point is the crowd is often a reflection of who is promoting. I think it is the club owners’ obligation as a good neighbor to book DJs which have a good reputation and avoid those club promoters which have a more rowdy following. Soon spring will turn to summer and the clubs will all be packed. My simple solution for the 2am wakeup call has always been to have a police car in visible sight. Having a police presence does two things. 1) This visual presence often has a result of moving the crowd form the club/bar to their cars quickly and more quietly. People act differently when there is a police car in the area. 2) Usually it is just a few loud party goers that make all the noise. Having a police presence will send a message to those individuals that their behavior is being watched and if there is any trouble there will be swift action.

I think that these club owners should and can pay for a police car from 1:30 to 2:30am.

Additionally, there does tend to be pre-parties and post-parties in these parking lots. Most often they are not even noticeable but on the rare occasion I have had to call the police. Once for a car alarm which was extremely loud that was going off for four hours, until the owner arrived at 1:30am. Because the car is on private property, the police could not do anything. This policy has to change, the parking lot attendants and owners need better accountability.

Melanie on April 16, 2007, at 12:07PM – #9

I live in the same building as Eric and although I do agree that living in Downtown one can expect certain things to go along with it, this noise is new. The club has been operating since we moved in and only recently has there been ANY noise level at all. I've attended a few of the events at the Stock Exchange and was very pleased with the sound system inside the club and the lack of noise outside the club.

I can also agree with Eric that at one point, I too thought it was a shame the entrance wasn't on Spring St, but felt it was a nice compromise to have such a great location for a club. I feel that if you move into an area and the noise is at a certain level, you deal with it. But when the noise level increases, something should be done to mitigate it. I don't complain about street noise or the homeless preacher. That was there and will continue to be there as part and parcel of where I live, but this new club is doing something different. This weekend, they actually put chairs and a smoking area out front on Spring St.

The club does have bouncers who do nothing (even during the fight this weekend). I'd be interested to hear how Bar 107 and the Edison contend with noise in their neighborhood.

I think the club promoters and managers need to figure out a compromise. It worked in the past, why shouldn't it work now?

Dennis on April 16, 2007, at 12:21PM – #10

I was wondering what was going on that night. My bedroom window faces Spring Street on the west side of Spring, further down from Eric and Melanie - the yelling was so loud I thought someone was getting beaten to death.

I say we start calling the cops until the night club realizes that they can't pull this kind of nonsense. It makes the night club look bad, and the best thing we can do is draw attention to the fact that they've got a drunken, brawling patronage.

I disagree with you Fred. It's one thing to have the chatter of people waiting in line to get in, it's an entirely different situation when you have patrons of the night club creating an unreasonable nuisance and a dangerous situation across the street from our homes. We moved downtown for the urban living, but not for this. If the night club's bouncers aren't doing their jobs, it's not fair to those of us that live across the street.

Benjamin Pezzillo on April 16, 2007, at 12:26PM – #11

Eric, I'm right there with you. I have seen three incarnations of the Stock Exchange since moving next door to it, each one bringing a different crowd. Margarita Jones (the club's last incarnation) was a welcome change. Club el Antro is different -- louder and more aggressive. We can hear the bass from their sound system reverberate through our building's walls -- far from 'acceptable' urban noise. Signage would be a start for noisy patrons leaving but, given the above report of an altercation, I think this may be a situation where a patrol car or foot patrol posted outside at last call may be more appropriate.

Josh on April 16, 2007, at 12:51PM – #12

More complaints, figures...Noise is part of Downtown L.A

Bert Green on April 16, 2007, at 01:10PM – #13

I've lived in a number of cities, New York included, and it is NOT OK in those places for the the kind of noise Eric describes. The club owners ARE responsible for keeping patrons, once outside their doors, from disturbing the neighbors. Really, just try that in Manhattan, and see how nice the neighborhood associations or the police would be.

There is a big difference between "urban noise," which is usually things like traffic, sirens, a general walla of sounds, and deliberate "disturbance of the peace," which is a minor criminal offense.

Maxximoo on April 16, 2007, at 01:23PM – #14

I live across from Bar 107 and so for years i've dealt with large amounts of noise crescendoing at 2am. Whenever i'm in bed and i hear it, a giant smile grows on my face.

I love hearing the din of life in the city. I love knowing i'm part of that life i hear. I love hearing all these people downtown.

When i first moved downtown, the bus noises at all hours kept me awake. but then i got used to it. it became the white noise of the city. The drunken yelling never bugged me. I guess its because i like to remember that sometimes, i go out and i get to make noise.

Fred Camino on April 16, 2007, at 01:47PM – #15

I guess the question is where is the line drawn? At a certain decibel level? I mean I still think than any sort of nightlife/bar/nightclub is going to come with a certain amount of after-hours noise, especially on the weekend. How will you define what is too loud? Anything that wakes you up? Even if the bouncers tighten up, there's still going to be the random drunk who is going to shout before the bouncer can shut him up, and it's likely to wake you up. Some people have mentioned promoting to different crowds, but that sounds borderline discriminatory.

It sounds like the consensus is getting to police involved. Hopefully it helps!

lastraphanger on April 16, 2007, at 02:09PM – #16

Oh my gosh, if you want NOISE:

The previous owners of the Alexandria rented space in the hotel for "rave" parties on Saturday nights. The so-called "music" from those parties would shake that 100-year-old building like an earthquake until 2am and then the partygoers would spill onto the sidewalk and yell, talk, argue and laugh at the top of their lungs until about 4am!

When the new owners of the Alexandria held a meeting to introduce themselves to the tenants (many of whom are elderly and/or disabled), what request do you think tenants had, right after saving their homes? NO MORE RAVE PARTIES!

To their credit, the new owners kept their word and there have been no more Rave parties.

D on April 16, 2007, at 04:06PM – #17

The main problem is that the cutoff is at 2:00 Am, where everyone comes out at the same time. They should extend cutoff to 4 or 5 where people can trickle out and it wont be such a burden. I know its a California rule, and MADD and the police commission would have serious problems with it, but extending it owuld improve nightlife and reduce the noise problem because not everyone will stay till 4 or 5.

Benjamin Pezzillo on April 16, 2007, at 04:54PM – #18

Perhaps a little more information about this block is in order.

The block of 600 S. Spring St. has only nine buildings. Of those nine: five are currently residential (and have been for years), two are in conversion to become residential, one is an office building and the last is a mostly dilapidated historic landmark which houses nothing but a nightclub open only on Friday and Saturday nights.

There has been peaceful coexistence with this nightclub. But -- for whatever reason: music, theme, advertising choices, etc.-- the new crowd and, perhaps, new club management do not seem to be respectful of the overwhelming residential nature of this block.

There are noise ordinances in Los Angeles, in fact they are some of the strongest in the nation:

http://www.lapdonline.org/special_operations_support_division/content_basic_view/1031

The question seems to be which one best applies to this circumstance.

Shawn on April 16, 2007, at 07:09PM – #19

Your apartment is pretty close to the street. I'm not surprised that you hear noise, but if it's excessive I don't think that it's at all unreasonable for you and your neighbors to ask the club to try and keep it down. They may not be able to totally control it, but if maybe they can have some results.

As far as the Manhattan comparison...my father has a 3rd floor apartment in midtown on 2nd avenue. There's a club next door and one across the street. There is definitely noise coming from those late at night. Likely on the same level as what you hear if not louder. But there are also restaurants open...and bars open...and street traffic. Those tend to drown some of the loud chatter and it all kind of just blends together into one big cacophonous background. Maybe that's what you should hope for? : )

sto on April 17, 2007, at 04:35AM – #20

i agree with Dennis, call the cops when it gets out of hand. Eventually the club managers will get a clue. They can likely be fined for things like this.

Scott Mercer on April 17, 2007, at 07:39AM – #21

E:

I've got three words for you:

triple glazed windows.

Ask your landlord. Maybe you can split the cost.

lastraphanger on April 17, 2007, at 11:26AM – #22

I've got another three words for you: foam ear plugs. After you insert them, they expand and fit snugly; they don't block out all noise, but I definitely sleep better with them.

sto on April 18, 2007, at 06:04AM – #23

I just use a fan. Works out well in the Summer on hot nights, in the Winter I just point it at the wall. Eitherway, it blocks out 90% of noise.

Tim on April 18, 2007, at 08:59AM – #24

As long as we're sharing potential solutions, here is a link to a site re window soundproofing. When I discovered this product, it made me comfortable buying at the Roosevelt as I was a bit worried about the noise level: http://www.soundproofwindows.com/

Rob Cohen on September 10, 2008, at 02:21PM – #25

As long as we are talking about solutions, Check out www.citiquiet.com. They are the leader in interior soundproof windows, and they have a new local office. They provide a level of service that no one can match. The sound in NYC is huge, and Citiqiet is the number one solution for noise in NYC

Guest on August 15, 2010, at 10:46AM – #26

THIS PLACE NEEDS TO GO! So last night there were 2 fire engines and 5 cop cars. This went on for over an hour & a half. Literally felt like someone had gotten shot. Bad crowd - not the cool, inidie-ish people of downtown. Every Saturday night its been crazy because of this place & this time was the worst.

THIS PLACE SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO GO.