Some Friday Stadium Play Time

This is really cool! Amazing Eric.

Here's my favorite spot @ Seventh/Alameda:

http://cartifact.com/stadium/?dodgers|1328.05|1351.85|-52.0430904163823|99|847|50

This location would really help stretch improved quality of life Downtown all the way to the river and provide an incredible view of the skyline for staidum visitors and television cameras. This location would need and could include a Gold Line and Blue Line extension.

I worry your pick would bring the 101 freeway to a crawl during games.

My second favorite spot would be right over the Convention Center:

http://cartifact.com/stadium/?dodgers|243|1758.85|48.2495683300911|71|1460|100

Again, amazing views of the Downtown skyline. Existing Blue Line stop. Engineering feat of amazing proportion. LA Live nearby. Parking would be astronomically expensive.

p.s. When will BlogDowntown have a spellcheck feature?

Above ground rail on Alameda for the Gold Line -- same perhaps for a Blue Line spur.

Any additional expense would be recouped in the decades to come through continued development of that area of Downtown. Alameda and Temple doesn't offer much added benefit there.

Proximity to 10 and 5, as well as surface streets, at Alameda and 7th would be better than the single exit from 101 at Alameda and Temple. Also, Alameda and Temple is close to the LAPD heliport which operates 24/7 whether or not the Dodgers are in the playoffs. Parking would be better at 7th/Alameda too.

It's all conjecture anyway, I don't think the Dodgers are in any hurry to move into a stadium the City owns instead of them.

My browser (Safari) has spell check, I never knew that! Thank you.

Extremely cool diversion, Eric...

The large railyard just south of the Brewery would make a fantastic stadium location... if only it were available. I think that is a Union Pacific yard...? That area would require some significant access upgrades, but it is close to the 5, 101 and not too far off the 110. Downtown views past the outfield would be very good, although orienting the stadium that way would have batters looking directly into the sun in late afternoon and early evening games... a REAL problem perhaps. Same issue with Alameda & 7th.

Ben - putting it on top of the Convention Center could be great... I have always had a problem with the low density use the CC represents. As for costs, engineering and parking... hey, this is all a fantasy anyhow, right...?

i am in agreement with benjamin but put the stadium at 9th and alameda...no real reason why, it just looked good there. thanks for entertaining me during the last, long half hour at work: 9th and alameda

Exactly, it's all fun -- like SimCity, although I've only read the box, but with real world logistics.

7th and Alameda would not present much of a sun issue for batters but might get the right field.

What has always bothered me about Dodger Stadium (besides the forced access by car and associated forced parking) is its isolation.

To me a stadium should capture the soul of the city, perhaps Dodger Stadium's message is that of Los Angeles' Bubble World culture (house bubble, car bubble, work bubble).

Putting the stadium in one of the true 24-hour areas of the City (produce market/warehouse district) would remind people there's plenty going on in LA all the time.

Here's another idea (atop the Belmont Learning Center):

http://cartifact.com/stadium/?dodgers|157.1|830.45|142.024436270928|0|640.846153846154|65

Big sun problem though (not to mention waste clean-up and fault-line).

I like the 7th/Alameda or the 9th/Alameda (sure that isn't Olympic/Alameda?) locations.

Good location transitwise and freewaywise, IMO.

No Gold line/Blue line extensions are needed. An at-grade or elevated Redline extension from Union Station is easier, cheaper and better.

The Redline currently does continue from Union Station, comes to the surface, and turns south into a facility intended for storage of far more carriages than currently are in use. Redline tracks currently run as far as under the 6th Street Viaduct on the west side of the L.A. River although not for revenue passenger service. Not that great an effort would be required for an extension of revenue track to a 7th/Alameda or 9th/Alameda Stadium station from Union Station. Why waste all that track on the west side of the L.A. River for unneeded storage?

My second choice:

http://cartifact.com/stadium/?dodgers|460.65|1663.8|1.346876403849|59.4158415841584|975.257425742574|50.5

The view of the downtown skyscrapers would be awesome. Right past the outfield. The location would require a lot of redevelopment effort though as I don't think the Government owns any of the land. This would require CRA help and all that.

Richard, good to know about the Red Line tracks.

I like your second pick as well.

Maybe all this talk will help someone, somewhere think about a football stadium!

Here's my POV.

Bad News.

Check this one out: http://www.xlcapital.com/xlc/share/PressRelease_Detail.jsp?id=804&lobbyname=news

The key lines: "the new financing arrangement ensures that the team will continue to play at Dodger Stadium for at least another quarter-century. The terms of the placement include provisions specifying that there will be no change in control of the Dodgers or where they play for 25 years. Mr. McCourt has made a long-term commitment to baseball at Dodger Stadium for decades to come."

Dodger Stadium is going to be one old baseball park the Dodgers will be playing in before this deal expires.

Notice the strange goings on Orange County with the Angels though. Artie Moreno did change the name of his team to "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" and has managed to make it stick despite the unhappiness of the City of Anaheim. Are the Angels unhappy for some reason down in Anaheim or is Artie going out of his way to reach out to baseball fans in Los Angeles that are unhappy with the Dodgers? Don't forget Artie's "City of Angels" billboard ad campaign.

Even if the Angels are locked into Anaheim Stadium, what's to prevent a third major league team from entering the Los Angeles market? New York City had three MLB teams for decades before the Giants and Dodgers left.

Yeah, this is a fun piece of code. But, I say who cares? By my reckoning, major league baseball is a dinosaur and the game is headed for some serious decline. Kids just don't play baseball anymore. When was the last time any of us went to a ball game? When was the last time the Dodgers mattered? (1988, I'd hazard a guess.) Parking is a mess. Recently, I read a comment from a season ticket holder that it takes him 40 minutes to get to the game form downtown(!). Ticket prices are ridiculous.

As the aging fans diminish, the game is going to hit an economic wall. Within a generation, Dodger Stadium will be sold or returned to the city in some form. Then, Chavez Ravine will be re-made/re-discovered as the premier city park it ought to be.

Well, the last game I caught was the April 25 contest against the hated ones from up north and I hope to catch a game in the next homestand against the Cubs or the Brewers. Judging from the crowd, there were plenty of fans under the age of 30 in attendance and they did not seem to be lacking in either knowledge or intensity when it came to following the game. My teen age students in East Los Angeles are regular visitors to the stadium and there is a virtual caravan of vehicles that use Cesar Chavez to Sunset as their route to the Ravine that avoids the traffic on the freeways. If kids here in the U.S. aren't playing the sport, there seems to be a global pool of Asian and Latin players to take up the slack. The Dodgers regularly sell well over 3,000,000 tickets a year. That's more fans in seats than the Lakers, Clippers and Kings combined sell each year, so I'm not quite sure I see the diminution in fan base that may be apparent to some.

Fans living here in Downtown have little to complain about as the stadium is only a 3.5 mile walk, easily accomplished in 45 minutes to an hour. No traffic, no parking fee, no waiting in the parking lot to leave and a chance to enjoy many of the sublime views of Downtown that Eric so often promotes as part of his bicycle excursions to Chavez Ravine.

I caught the April 21st home game against the Pirates but missed the Grand Slam (it would have been my first in person!).

Getting to the stadium and into the season ticket seats I'm occasionally blessed with being able to use is less than a 20 minute door to door experience from my loft in the HIstoric Core by car (and that includes a stop at a concession stand).

Figueroa north and briefly (1/8 mile) onto the 110 before taking the exit right into the stadium parking lane.

I don't see the interest in baseball diminishing anytime soon.

I like Ed's idea to put it on the Flats east of the river. There is enough old industrial over there that they could avoid tearing down any houses.

There is no question that the Eastside deserves some economic boost.

Exactly -- placing a new stadium should be seen as dumping a pot of gold into the most deserving area in need of "boost" which meets the fundamental requirements of proximity to Downtown and transportation.

It would be cool if you could put it in other places too though. I really think that a new Stadium would be incredible in Hollywood.

The Northeast corner of Hollywood and Highland would be awesome. You can leave the stores on Hollywood Blvd and of course the big bank building. But it could butt up against those stores and run along highland. It would be great.

With the Hollywood Sign in the outfield.

Eric / Tim and all,

I just did a drive-by for fun in the flats. There are new low income housing, good looking, just south of First. Also, some older smaller homes that look like they date back to the early 20th century.

It could give the effect of a stadium right in the middle of a neighborhood.

Stop wasting ur time, dodger stadium is not moving anytime soon,

Speculation is where things start happening. If it doesn't happen for 50 years maybe it started here. If it never happens maybe these ideas will influence some other ideas. Creation is never linear or smooth or without doubts.

OK, Bob, you can go back to your (whatever you usually do) now. As for us kicking this around... we're obviously having a little fun. I know that bothers some people...

David - yes, I agree, baseball is a declining sport - among middle aged caucasian American people - but it is simply exploding in Latin America and Asia. Take a look at where the new players are coming from - they've been coming from the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Mexico, Japan, Korea and Taiwan for a while now. I think the game will fairly soon break out of the North American straitjacket it has been in since the days of Abner Doubleday. That can only bode well for the game, and by extension, Dodger Stadium, whether it stays in the Ravine or moves.

It doesn't look like the Dodgers will be abandoning their hideaway in Chavez Ravine any time soon, unfortunately. So they will be continuing in their aging stadium that soon will be the third oldest for a MLB team with all the traffic problems its been plagued with all these decades.

However, speculating on a potential location for a future baseball stadium (and by extension a future football stadium) for downtown L.A. is not a waste of time.

The Coliseum location is obviously a nonstarter. The only high profile team remaining there is USC. The NFL Rams, NFL Raiders, NBA Lakers, NBA Clippers, MLB Dodgers, UCLA, even USC basketball all came and went. The NFL refuses to return. And it looks like the U.S. Olympic Committee isn't interested in returning the Olympics to the Coliseum, either.

It does look like South Park has been a major hit. After the move to Staples Center, the profile of both the Lakers and the Clippers were raised in Los Angeles. I would say the Lakers are the most popular team in Los Angeles given the absence of an NFL team and the isolation of the Dodgers in Chavez Ravine. Now AEG is expanding in a big way. This should be something others with interests in the Los Angeles market should be noticing.

Like the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. The Angels have the American League territorial rights to the Counties of Los Angeles, Ventura, Riverside, and San Bernardino in addition to Orange County. The Angels have been very emphatic on this in the dispute over the organization's name with the City of Anaheim.

The only reason the Angels left Los Angeles was because Gene Autry wanted his team out of Chavez Ravine but couldn't relocate to another suitable stadium in Los Angeles. Thus the move to Orange County all those decades ago.

With the NFL, I think if an NFL owned stadium were built in L.A. it could house TWO NFL teams like the Meadowlands does. No trouble in getting at least one NFL team to abandon it's current market to move to Los Angeles if there was a "suitable" NFL stadium to move to.

all you guys are going to do is complaint about the traffic, about the noise, about the people etc. Remember "Be Careful What You Wish For"

Bob, what evidence makes you say that "all you guys are going to complaint (sic) about the traffic, about the noise, about the people"? How are you able to divine our collective behavior many years into the future. Have you applied these powers of prognostication to the stock market? That might be very profitable.

I was just looking at the Cartifact maps of Griffith Park. It would be great to see an accurate overlay of the fire area. The papers, ahem, do such a crappy job of reporting on these kinds of things with any accuracy, as if none of us know anything about the park or the city.

Thanks for noticing how well my Dodger Stadium proposal fits. I am still looking at it in wonder.

Oh, Bob burped up again. Jeez, man, I thought you were getting tired of us! Glad to see you're having fun... By the way, if you really paid attention to "all us guys" you'd see that most of us actually tend to be quite positive on this blog.

Anyhow, Richard - I was pleasantly surprised to see you bring up the Angels. If they were "really" an OC team you think they'd have changed their name at some point... away from "Angels". Perhaps something like the "Mouseketeers"... then again, Disney divested them. I like the team though, and perhaps they will eventually "come home". Given that Dodger Stadium is probably going to stay put for a long time, that could be the other MLB angle here... and with this Downtown renaissance, anything is possible. Who knows, we might even see the ubiquitous "Bob" at the game.

Since Dodger Stadium isn't moving, extend the Red Line to Dodger Stadium from Union Station. It's only 1.5 miles as the tunnel bores. Have McCourt pay for most of the construction, or at least for the station structure. This would cost much less than building a new stadium.

This will keep people in the downtown area both before and after the game, and give downtown more life at night. People will go to bars and drink after a game if THEY AREN'T DRIVING. This cuts down on people driving drunk.

I'd suggest tearing down the Sports Arena (look at the schedule of events on-line; they have less than one event per month) and constructing a new baseball stadium there.

By the time the stadium is built, the Expo Line will be built and you'd have a meaningful transit option from the Westside.

It could share parking with the Coliseum. And it would revitalize an area desperately in need of it.