CRA Moves Streetcar Campaign Forward

After many years of talks and committees, it really seems like this is going to finally happen. Very tangible!

Will there be any public input on route selection?

Here's my two cents:

1. I'd like a downtown loop (both clock and counter clockwise)

2. We don't need a North/South or East/West route

Hey Eric,

You may not be able to answer this, but is this gadgetbahn going to be wheelchair accessible? I would hope, since it's not historic, but something like that would really help in terms of getting around Downtown.

Great idea! Streetcars will be very useful!

Rather than imposing concrete ramps and boarding platforms onto the streetscape (plus safety railings), let's hope that the streetcar vehicles will incorporate lifts for disabled patrons as do buses. If the system is conceived to run on rails, platforms and ramps would be required. These are ugly eyesores - coming from an urban design or street aesthetic standpoint. The greatest impact would be in the Historic Core. Instead, each vehicle should be able to steer itself, pull over to the curb for pickup/letting off. With that we get a Dash Bus doctored back to the future. So, the romantic idea of a streetcar, the novelty of it, has negative consequences and Downtown L.A. is never going to be Downtown S.F. Instead, why not redo the Dash Buses WAY into the future. Make them be tourist attractions in themselves; each one unique. The greatest advantage of this is that no infrastructure would be required: no cable or overhead wire/support poles or rails or platforms/ramps/railings. Get the automotive students at the Art Center in on it. We need to be forward on this, NOT retro: hydrogen propulsion is the way to go.

Yes! Downtown loop, two tracks counter-clockwise and clockwise! If we use modern, low floor streetcars, we don't have to build huge "stations" like the Blue Line has, probably just a raised median in the street, the same size as a sidewalk. We'd need "island" stations if we're having two loops, clockwise and counter clockwise.

If there's just a one-way loop, then streetcars could stop at the curb.

Here's my route:

Starting at LA Convention Center...Figueroa and Pico. Going up Figueroa past LA Live, the Financial District, Bunker Hill, all the way to Chavez...right on Chavez...right on Broadway, passing El Pueblo...continuing along Broadway through the Civic Center, all the way to Pico where it makes a right, crosses the Blue Line and ends back at Figueroa.

Low floor vehicles look gawd-awfull! If you're not aiming for an authentic looking reproduction, then why bother? No way can you get anything which would look authentic and be low floor. This streetcar idea is all romantic nonsense. Richard Keating once came up with an interesting idea for futuristic trams for transporting conventioneers between hotels and the convention center. I say take that concept WAY forward. Make it super tech, unique, odd-ball and all about what Los Angeles is about: the future! Once upon a time the CRA had a huge public works project all set to break ground. This was 'The People Mover' and would have been routed from the convention center thru the financial district, Bunker Hill, Civic Center and on up to Union Station. Most of it to be elevated. This was at the time of the Carter Administration. They were a few weeks shy of breaking ground and Ronald Reagan was elected. Within a week, Reagan announced that he would block any and all federal funds for the People Mover. Believe me, there was much wailing and knashing of teeth at Fourth and Spring. Most of this system would have been elevated, double tracked, with escalators, elevators, pylons galore. That project would have been the deathknell of Downtown L.A. The Bunker Hill Stairs, Library Tower, Gas Company projects would never have happened and the library expansion likely would not have as well, all due to the People Mover.

Please, let's not have grotesque visual impositions upon the streetscape of the Historic Core. Think twice about nostalgic ideas and when hair-brained choo choo hobbyists start jumping up and down, watch out. We should respect the intents of our city architects of a century ago, their efforts to bring the City Beautiful Movement to Los Angeles and the superlative, Beaux Arts result that we still have today with the Historic Core.

Futuristic, super tech DASHmobiles would be highly complementary to the Historic Core. Some sort of low floor contraption and infrastructure would be a disaster. Go look at downtown San Jose if you want to know what I mean. Thank gawd that the head of ARCO got on the phone with the president-elect and said "Stop this S__t!"

"Low floor vehicles look God Awful!"

Just an opinion there. I hope you have not seen the futuristic vehicles now in use in Seattle and Portland, because those are the ones I am talking about.

They are specifically not retro or vintage looking.

I agree that "People movers" are not a good idea. I've ridden the one in Miami. They kill all street life by elevating the vehicles above the street. The Bringing Back Broadway plan is about reactivating street life, not killing it forever.

If we respect the vision of the architects of our city a century ago, then streetcars should be installed. But why should they look like they were built in 1920? Buses have been upgraded, both in appearance and technology, why shouldn't streetcars? Low floor cars are preferable because they specifically DON"T REQUIRE any infrastructure. They can be directed right up to the curb. If you wanted to load them in the middle of the street, you would have to build nothing more complex than a standard sidewalk.

But why should anyone listen to me? I'm nothing but a hair-brained choo choo hobbyist. (I was vomiting while typing that.)

Hair-brained choo choo hobbyists out in the Valley wailed in protest when the decision was made to put the Redline all underground. They just HAD to have their E-Ticket ride down Vermont Blvd. to get to work. Lately, similarly afflicted trollyites had their way regards the Exposition Corridor and therewith a Subway to The Sea won't be completed until out kids are senior citizens. The original concept was to have the Redline be elevated between Wilshire and Hollywood Blvd.

Nuthin' personal you understand. I'm thinking of the Barf Scene in Stand By Me as I type this. (The whole neighborhood woke up at 2 a.m. the first time I ever saw that..)

Otherwise, I think there would be an advantage of NOT using rails. A rail based system would prolly require condemnation of land for a trolley yard for security when the system is shut down. Without rails, the system or vehicles would have max. flexibility, be adjusted or rerouted during festivals, protest marches, parades and whenever Bratton blows his top. I still think that automotive design students at the Art Center could dream up vehicle designs that would put the Northwest trolleys to shame.

I personally like the idea of a dedicated rail line in downtown. Something small like those found in many European cities. (Not the large ones we use here in L.A. i.e., Blue and Green Line) Istanbul has a very nice system in there downtown district.

But that said, I do agree that a bus system would provide greater long term flexibility and would require less infrastructure. If we don’t go with a rail system, we need to have a dedicated bus lane.

Right now the DASH does not work because it takes too long to wait for a bus. DASH does not deliver on their promised 5-10 minute pickup schedule because they are stuck in traffic like everyone else.

Either way, I still think any planned route should be a loop. A loop route (similar to the Chicago Loop) provides the greatest coverage for a small area. From within the loop, the farthest a person would be from a station is the distance of the radius within the loop…i.e. it’s not that far.

Regardless of what is decided, I hope action is taken while there is momentum and this idea does not just die in “committee”.

But don’t mind me, just more ranting from an urban planning hobbyist.

Each vehicle shall be a religion-free zone, with live go-go dancers at the back of the bus and/or trolley! Music shall be supplied by patrons, queued from their i-pods as they make their entrance. USB connection or whatever module insert alongside the coinbox or debit card pay module. The entire ceiling of every vehicle is covered by a digital monitor. Too bad campaign 2008 will not still be in progress (could not still be in progress forever?) as rocking, thumping, curving, swerving vehicles would progress down the avenues while Neil Young blasts 'Let's Impeach The President' at full tilt while Britney and/or George Michael groove their bump and grind in the full flesh and the L.A. Convention Center business suddenly explodes as Downtown L.A. becomes the center of the MSM Universe. The value of real estate near each and every station rises exponentially. Morphosis designed PinkBerry outlets accrue. Jesus Jumpers descend on the Central City to protest public indecency. Here comes the Ayatollah Robertson. It has all now been predicted (AyatollyaSo). PLEASE name one vehicle in memory of Allen Ginsberg. That's my only request. HEY: I saw the best minds of my generation slathered and primed at PinkBerry! Out. Gone. Busted in the dawn's early light of east 7th Street.