The Modern Streetcar's Greatest Asset: Low Floor Boarding

Everyone says red cars, but IINM the Pacific Electric red cars were the longer distance interurban cars that went to places like Long Beach and San Bernardino. It was the yellow (LARy) cars that transported people around downtown. And those are the ones that I hope we'll choose. They'd be similar to the old streetcars used in San Francisco. There's still lots of the old ones around and we'd just need a few to run around downtown so they'd be easy to get. Hopefully some PCC cars which were the more modern type.

And the size of the boarding ramp (sidewalk level) would be less than the one that you describe so I don't see that as an issue. The difference between a high floor streetcar and a low floor streetcar is similar to the difference between a high and low floor bus. You're making it sound like a different infrastructure would be needed like for our high floor light rail cars. It won't be like that at all.

Uh-oh, a LARyite on a hobby horse is gonna use Downtown for a playpen. OR, how we gonna modify a LARy to low-floor configuration? Now THAT would look weird. Back to the backward. Reverse march!

Whatever, if it ain't red it's dead.

I do hope that they choose to go with a contemporary design, not a fake version of the yellow car updated for accessibility. Los Angeles has always been the city of the future and we should continue to think of it that way. That can be a tourist draw as much as the hokey nostaglic approach of "other cities."

I also wish we could build the silly things right here. I can't imagine the ramifications of that idea, though. The price would probably be astronomical.

As Someone who is very avtive in the disability rights movement , I have to say that the low car is the way to go.

Great job!!! To those who ventured to the pacific northwest.

Keep in mind that historic cars are in short supply and are in very high demand. Since their historical value is a premium, finding those would become very expensive.

A compromise approach, and a chance for some do-gooding, is to buy custom-built streetcars from the RTA in New Orleans. RTA is the Orleans parish's transit system, and it faced a bind since streetcars were no longer being made and the city is adamant about continuing a service that has been extant for almost 200 years. So the agency decided to open a shop to build streetcars for itself.

Obviously, Katrina may make this a non-starter. For one thing, streetcars are sturdy vehicles that can last 50 years or more. There hasn't been a need to build many, but Katrina destroyed RTA's younger streetcar fleet (the ancient St. Charles fleet is fine), and the agency's priority is to build those first. Also, the workmanship that goes in to building these streetcars doesn't lend itself to quick assembly line work. We might have to wait five years or more before Nawlins can build us some.

However, if RTA can turn this into an opportunity for much-needed work there and fill a demand for historic streetcars here and elsewhere, L.A. can get a semi-historic fleet. It won't be historically authentic, but RTA's maintenance craftsmen can build a streetcar and parts identical to their old cars. New Orleans has kept cars built in the 1920s running. We could do the same.

In my opinion, trying to implement historic cars would be costly and problematic. Whereas using modern, low floor boarding cars would be efficient and crucial to the systems function.

Its hard enough to get Angelinos to take public transportation as it is. The only system that would work would be a very sleak and modern line.

If the cars are nostalgic looking, they will be viewed as toursity instead of a major functional necessity.

-John

I'm in favor of the historic streetcars. If they are viewed as touristy then that would be a good thing for the tourists visiting downtown. Tourists don't go to San Francisco to ride the buses or the lightrail then go to ride the streetcars.

If the locals don't use the historic streetcar because it looks touristy then that's the fault of the group marketing the system. When you look at the cable cars, they charge 5 bucks for a one way ticket. Holy crap that's expensive, and only the tourists ride them because of that and it's limited destinations.

Now, if we look at the F Line which is what I'm hoping Downtown's would be like someday. It is used by both tourists and locals. They charge a decent fee like a bus and has many stops to make it worth it to a local to use. Would the line would if they used modern streetcars, absolutely. The point is the city from the beginning marketed the line correctly so that everyone can benefit from it, not just the tourists.

As far as the low boarding is concerned, besides the PCC I would love to see the old Hollywood Cars run around downtown.

This link has a picture of Pacific Electric car 655 currently being restored at OERM.

http://www.oerm.org/pages/pe655.html

Low boarding is completely possible with the car with little modifications being needed. If finding cars is a problem then maybe the city would work out a lease agreement with OERM to use some of their streetcars until the city can buy/make their own.

I agree with Wad. 15 years ago, you could have scrounged up vintage PCC streetcars, no problem, maybe some other types too. Today, not so much. The San Francisco Muni is just the most heavy user of the vintage cars. There are other cities, like Kenosha, Wisconsin, and Toronto, that use a few of them.

So, modern is the way to go for L.A.

I'd like to add that a company called Oregon Iron Works is now building these cars in the USA, though, I believe the company is partly owned by Skoda, and they are identical in design to the cars built by Skoda in the Czech Republic.

So, at least some of the money going to build these cars will employ American workers in Oregon. The company was established because it was seen that Portland would probably have an ongoing need for these streetcars, and since mass transit was making a comeback, other cities might buy them also.

While these streetcars will definitely be used by residents, the city and business owners primary interest in the streetcar system is to attract tourists and visitors from the greater LA area to Broadway. Otherwise there's not really significant advantage of a streetcar over a bus. In fact in an area like downtown a streetcar is probably inferior to a bus because of their inability to detour. The public perception is quite different so many people will consider riding a train or tram fun especially when compared against riding a bus.

The questions that we have then are which model does the public prefer, which is the most economical, and least importantly how well will they incorporate with their surroundings. I list that last because I think that they are essentially the same yet for some reason is a concern. I think the historic cars win or tie on all three, but I like sleek and new as well so I don't think that I'll be disappointed no matter how it turns out as long as it's built.

Whether or not the cars are accessible is not an issue. The cars HAVE to be accessible. How we make them accessible is an issue and I can appreciate that low floors allow quicker boarding.

I'm not sure that the historic cars are hard to find. At least not the PCC's. IINM Newark, NJ just sent over a dozen to salvage just a few months ago. This isn't even including any of the ones that they earlier sent to SF. How many cars would we need to buy? I'm guessing at most 5 or 6 for the initial stage. If we start running them all over we'd need more at some point.

What has kept Broadway alive for many years has been the ground-floor retail, geared to a poor Latino clientele. The intent seems to be to displace these retailers in order to attract high-visibility chain stores.

The intent seems to be to displace first and then bring in the tenants, as had been done in Pasadena, rather than a slow encroachment by chains, as had been done on the Third Street Promenade.

Wad, you last name wouldn't be Holmes, would it?

No, but it should be. :>

Its hard enough to get Angelinos to take public transportation as it is. The only system that would work would be a very sleak and modern line.

We could only hope that Angelenos are such sheeple.

First, the problem is not "getting" people onto transit. We're doing that now. If you look and see what we have, we've got a burgeoning rail system, but a very comprehensive bus system.

The issue is getting public transit where it should have been decades ago. We can't move as many people as we do on buses alone. Building a few rail lines where bus ridership is heavily concentrated would free up buses for more frequent service where it's not now.

if anyone of you had to travel by wheelchair through a city with old streetcars you would think VERY differently! there's not enough space to move inside, sure you would get into the old cars with a wheelchair, but that's about it, you can't move inside them freely, and imagine full occupancy...!

i think the paint job and some minor adaptions to the old look would do wonders on the modern ones!!!

then comes the weight issue...! the new ones weight less, which means they will need less power/electricity, which translates to less resources needed... power still comes mostly from coal and other CO2 emitters...!

one downtown sees new cars in operation people will get used to them and after some time they will love them for their comfort and speed...! i think L.A. could even expand the surface rail system much further than just downtown! once people get used to them and the lines are efficiently planed and run which means that people have a real choice to automobiles... buses are slow and even the new bus lines will not have the same impact as a well run streetcar line.... below or above ground...