LAofAnaheim on July 18, 2008, at 12:17AM – #1

Raise the fare to .50 if that's what it takes. .25 is great, but if additional cash is needed for increased service, I'm all for it.

Bert Green on July 18, 2008, at 01:44PM – #2

I'd like to see a nighttime DASH service that replicates the proposed route of the streetcar (or similar). Even though Broadway is not heavily activated at night, it runs through the middle of downtown and would be a great way to connect Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Grand Ave, Historic Core, and LA Live. I'd use it.

JM on July 18, 2008, at 01:55PM – #3

This would be great. The Dash is such a good service (and pretty popular), but it doesn't run late. I'd pay .50 to take it after 7pm. Until a streetcar project comes along, this seems like the best alternative.

inLAonLA on July 18, 2008, at 05:04PM – #4

Make it $.50 for the evening rides, and $.25 for the daytime rides, that should help fund it...

Bert Green on July 18, 2008, at 07:01PM – #5

Why not just make it $1?

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 18, 2008, at 08:46PM – #6

For $1.25 you can use Metro buses to move around Downtown after the DASH routes stop running on Friday nights.

Nothing is presently stopping various entertainment venues from giving their patrons bus fare and directions (e.g. a restaurant in the Historic Core gives bus fare and a simple map for its patrons to get to LA Live and back).

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 19, 2008, at 11:32AM – #8

But given the large number of routes feeding into and out of Downtown, there are plenty of options late into the evening:

For example, the 2/302 line alone has buses running ever 15 to 30 minutes at night (from 7p to Midnight) up Broadway from Venice Blvd before it turns left and runs out Sunset to the Palisades.

And that is just one of 34 Metro Locals running into or out of Downtown...

Bert Green on July 19, 2008, at 11:23PM – #9

I am a huge advocate of using Metro, and I have a monthly pass, but navigating the various downtown bus lines requires a lot of knowledge of the routes, and that is something that most people don't have. I agree it can be done, and I do it regularly, but it is not reliable after 9 pm.

The advantage to a DASH system is that it can be downtown-specific, reliable, and frequent if done right.

Juanito on July 20, 2008, at 12:27AM – #10

When they do those streetcars on Broadway, they should call one of them Mendacity, and another - name it Aspiration. One of them should have an upper deck that is exposed to the sky, so we can look up into the firmament instead of out the window. There should be a sound system too, playing three artists: Roy Orbison east of Main Street, The Beach Boys down on the Gold Coast, and of course Bob Dylan in the Historic Core. Only The Lonely, Barbara Ann and Sad Eyed Lady of The Lowlands. That's all. They should serve drinks as well. I'm not sure what they ought to play around Disney Hall; haven't made my mind up on that. What do you think?

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 20, 2008, at 12:34PM – #11

It would be wise for Metro to publish routes and timetables on the bus stop posts like the NYC MTA does. These only seem to appear at the Rapid bus shelters. Can't say I've ever seen it on a micro level at a Local stop where it appears to be needed for the casual evening users.

Having this would give Local riders more confidence in hopping on and off without fear of ending up too far or in the wrong general direction into unfamiliar areas late at night.

Some of it just makes sense already though -- like that the MTA lines that serve Union Station via Downtown are often more frequent and expeditious than similar DASH lines. If you pack light and time right it makes the flyaway to LAX cheaper than roundtrip gas to the airport (let alone airport parking).

It's also much gentler than navigating to the airport across rush hour to then park and then have to climb onto an airport parking shuttle.

Russell Brown on July 20, 2008, at 03:54PM – #12

Sounds like this could be a great idea for downtown residents. Could someone who knows the crosstown routes well, help the DLANC Transportation committee come up with a route map that would be easy to use and understand for downtown stakeholders. Presently to figure it out with all the possibilities, t looks like comlicated software codes.

If the regular buses can serve the same function as the DASH buses, that could be the easy way (along with cabs) of transversing downtown without a car. Examples would be historic core to LA Live/ Staples or South Park to Little Tokyo or Chinatown.

As long as you know to get off at your location, does it really matter that you could go to Pomona or Sylmar (unless that is your destination)?

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 20, 2008, at 04:12PM – #13

See Page Four of the 12-Minute Map -- "Service so frequent, no timetable needed":

Russell Brown on July 20, 2008, at 05:25PM – #15

If it looks more like an electrical engineering blueprint than an easy neighborhood guide, who is going to use it?

I have lived here for 6 years and never once has anyone seemed to make it easy to get around without a car. The DASH does just that. Could be a great way to start a welcome pack for residents.

I agree that Ben's link has the info, but is it user friendly or sexy? That is what is needed to change folks mindset.

I drive a Prius, but I would still rather take transit IF I KNOW I can get there easily, cheaper and it can be a pleasant adventure. And who wants to pay for parking (again) when I already pay $100 a month for monthly parking (soon to be $150) in Old Bank District.

Besides, I still need a car for Trader Joe's, hauling supplies and most non-downtown trips.

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 20, 2008, at 09:25PM – #16

My point is that there is existing mass transit that could and should be fully utilized before adding another specialized route.

The map seems easily digestible to the tens of thousands of LAUSD school children and mass transit dependent riders who already use the system daily. It's amazing what need can do to spark learning.

The obvious:

East/West: Olympic, Seventh, Sixth (e), Fifth (w), Fourth (e), Third (w), First, Temple

North/South: Los Angeles, Broadway, Figueroa (n), Flower (s), Spring (s), Main (n), Hill, Olive (n), Grand (s)

It's perfectly acceptable to ask the bus driver, "How far [direction of desired travel] on [street of desired travel] does this bus go?"

But MTA posting linear route specific maps at stops like the NYC MTA does would help visitors:

http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/howto_bus.htm

Frustrated on July 21, 2008, at 06:59AM – #17

I really want to use the bus system but it seems to forget the reason why I need to use it- I am legally blind and do not drive. I can see a bus- yes, but I cannot read the signs at the bus stops, nor can I easily identify which bus is which before it is too late (it needs to be very close for me to read the sign on front of bus).

I need very good web sites with maps of routes and schedules- I can read a computer, and figure it out from there.

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 21, 2008, at 07:15AM – #18

"To further assist those with visual impairments, Metro provides Braille-encoded and large type “Metro Flash Books” for signaling the correct bus. For more information please call ."

Frustrated on July 21, 2008, at 08:38AM – #19

Sorry Benjamin- I do not read Braille. I am "low vision"- 20/200 with corrective glasses. How is Braille going to help me figure out what bus to get on when 3 of them pull up to the same bus stop?

Frustrated on July 21, 2008, at 09:00AM – #21

Why can't the buses just be a little more "differentiated"? I mean- different color schemes for DASH vs. Commuter vs. Local- to me they all look the same. This would help. BTW- have you ever tried to deal with the bus drivers downtown? They make NYC cab drivers seem polite- they will slam the door on you as they see you approach.

Anyway, it will take a lot of improvements before public transportation on LA will be considered an option for anybody, let alone low-vision people.

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 21, 2008, at 08:30PM – #22

Metro Local: Orange

Metro Rapid: Red (and usually the extra long articulated buses)

DASH: Shorter than a normal bus. Most have a white base with blue, sometimes black, trim.

LADOT Commuter Express: Larger (higher) than a normal bus, more like a Greyhound or tour bus. Most have a white base color.

Gardena (green trim), Montebello (red trim), OCTA (orange and blue trim), Santa Clarita (red trim) and Santa Monica (blue) all run some level of bus service through Downtown.

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 21, 2008, at 10:09PM – #23

BTW, I did spot a route map placard on a Metro stop at Wilshire and Union so, they have the technology. However, the time tables had long been removed and the entire thing was graffitied over on all four sides.

JM on July 24, 2008, at 09:52AM – #25

Thanks for the interesting posts. I agree that it's time to make the bus system more user-friendly. I've been commuting on a bus for 3,5 years and it's only when a colleague moved Downtown recently that I remembered how frustrating an experience it can be to use a bus here.

Thank you Benjamin Pezzillo for the links to the bus route maps. It's just a shame that this can't be done by the MTA and LADOT on a routine and consistent basis. I wholeheartedly agree that the bus maps and schedules should appear on every bus stop. For that matter, there should be more shelters at bus stops (something that the City seems to be working on with advertisers). Every time I take the subway, I'm amazed (and grateful, I must admit) that there's no advertising. However, this is a source of lost revenue for the MTA. I'm not opposed to advertising in the subway and on bus stops if it means the transit system becomes more user-friendly and the money is plowed back into the system. I didn't find a bus map for a year, until a fellow commuter told me about the secret, hidden stash of maps and timetables at Union Station. I'd venture a guess and say that most people who use the bus don't have access to the internet, and I've seen tourists get off the Flyaway at Union Station only to be left wandering around without a clue where to go. I think the resources are out there, but we need to make it easier. For that matter, the MTA stores need to be open later in the evening and on weekends, for those of us who work.

As a last comment, bus service in the evening is hard to navigate without advance planning and it is infrequent. I've stood on street corners for up to 45 minutes before. It's easier (though not always practical) to walk...

Scott on July 27, 2008, at 11:04AM – #26

I think a downtown specific guide would be useful. Perhaps the downtown friendly guide would break out east/west streets and north/south streets so that the user understands the grid layout within a certain boundry (for instance Temple/Los Angeles/Figueroa/Venice) and then break out the East/West and North/South lines that always offer boarding and discharge and provide the minimum and maximum times. For instance, Broadway N/S, Routes X, Y and Z, 5 minutes peak, 12 minutes off-peak.

I think for the casual user, the main concerns are, can a bus get me where I want to go? which bus? how long will I wait? and is it faster just to walk?

We need to put ourselves in the head of someone perhaps exiting a Laker game or convention event who wants to check out this place they've heard of called Pete's or Golden Gopher.

Perhaps a Trolley or REALLY well defined Dash route (perhaps following a bright blue "virtual track" painted in the middle of the street) will work to get them to that area, but will it ever make sense for someone to wait 15 minutes for bus A at Olymipic and Fig and them spend another 20 minutes at Olympic and Main to transfer to Bus B? For this use, a taxi is probably the best option. The dream system would probably be to have high tech updates on the next arrivals/destinations at all stops. I think active downtowners quickly come to the realization that they can walk to most places faster than it would take to wait for transit.

When we are talking 6 blocks or so, I think we want at least some people to walk, right? This is how we activate the streets. With that in mind, I think even the current Red Line pretty much accomplishes that goal.

Scott on July 27, 2008, at 11:46AM – #27

This may be a little crazy, but thinking about pedestrians that aren't familiar with downtown, and also thinking about how ugly our sidewalks are, what if we were to, as sort of an iconic art project, acutally paint a map or directions onto our sidewalks?

Imagine a color/graphic coded system (perhaps by district) painted onto the sidewalks where you could simply say, follow the Diamond Line to Main Street and then turn right a half block on the Traingle line.

I have taken walking tours in New York City where they used markers on the sidewalk, and I also noted in Scottsdale, AZ recently where they painted icons on their sidewalk to guide their Artwalk.

It would seem this could be done relatively inexpensively, maybe create unskilled jobs, perhaps subsidized by business, and could even be embellished with things like route specific podcasts in the future.

In this economic downturn, getting convention visitors, and sports event/concert goers to drift beyond the obvious destinations will be very important for the local economy. This project could literally make the pavement more friendly to traverse and if creatively executed, give it an iconic, artistic twist.

Thoughts?

Benjamin Pezzillo on July 27, 2008, at 12:54PM – #28

I finally spotted a route map on a Downtown MTA stop near the Disney Hall. Very clean and graffiti free which makes me think MTA abandons upkeep on such route maps in areas where it is judged to be never ending repair or replacement.

Painted lines on sidewalks give me pause. Maybe it is just the comparison to a floor of a large medical center I have in my mind. It would be a good idea for a very defined circuit like the Art Walk and I have seen chalk directions on the sidewalk I thought were very cool and temporary.