Brian on August 27, 2008, at 10:44PM – #1

Thanks for the background information!

I live across the street and look out some of my windows to see the mosaic clock tower and the park itself. It's a great compliment to the neighborhood from an aesthetic standpoint. The park is well maintained and serves as a great compliment to FIDM.

I am a pet owner, and although there are no signs prohibiting dogs from being in the park security is quick to run over and chase pets and their owners out.

I've probably walked through the park twice, maybe three times simply because Carter is not allowed inside. When I asked security why pets were not allowed I was told they would ruin the grass going to the bathroom on it.

Which is funny because the group that runs the park has no problem with (a) homeless sleeping in the middle of grass or on the various benches, (b) rats running through the park and into and out of the streets, (c) couples rolling around the grass, making out and groping one another (on a daily basis this can be seen).

Take those three things and it's not much of a park for families let alone pets.

The sad thing is Grand Hope Park is the only real green space in all of downtown.

Norbie 7 on August 27, 2008, at 11:14PM – #2

Finally, some common sense in regards to open space in Downtown L.A. - someone wants dog turds on the grass rather than human beings laying around caressing one another.

Urban Bruin on August 28, 2008, at 12:11AM – #3

Norbie...didn't your mama ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say..."keep your trap shut?"

"Dog turd on the grass?" No problem; that's what plastic bags are for.

Purple Haze on August 28, 2008, at 12:36AM – #4

Genuinely (sub)urban bruin is Divine in Drag and ought to practice what it preaches. Whatchya gonna do when plastic bags are outlawed? Yes, keep your trap shut amidst the splendor in the grass. A fly might pop right in there, having just alighted on your poochie's nice fresh turd.

Robert on August 28, 2008, at 07:10AM – #5

Great park. I think the fence is necessary. It would become a homeless haven or needle park overnight. I would love to see a dog area in the park. I take mine over to the Maguire gardens and there doesn't seem to be a problem with dog clean up there. The clock tower pictured could use a fresh coat of paint however. What about turning the sidewalk that is covered by low ficus trees on the west side into a linear park for dogs with a decomposed granite walkway? That would be a great use of Quimby funds!

Derick on August 28, 2008, at 07:29AM – #6

I love the park but can't stand the fence. The fence makes it seem like it is a part of FIDM. The hours mirror FIDM operation hours. There are no dogs allowed so as not to disturb the well-dressed FIDM students. It's a shame that public funds are used to maintain FIDM's front lawn.

Brian on August 28, 2008, at 07:31AM – #7

Norbie: Not that I need to explain myself but ...

• I use plastic bags that biodegrade in two weeks but I appreciate the effort.
• My comment about people hanging around on the grass wasn't that people should use the grass but rather it's one thing to lay around and take in the sun and another to roll around feeling one another up in a public place.

Again, the park is great for the area but it could be so much more. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't understand why there are not more parks like this downtown. Sitting around and waiting for Grand Avenue to produce a park is not the answer.

Brian on August 28, 2008, at 07:33AM – #8

My apologies to Norbie on the plastic bag comment - I didn't see that Purple Haze actually made the comment. :)

inLAonLA on August 28, 2008, at 07:53AM – #9

They should get rid of that fence. They have security to keep the dogs out, the same security can keep the homeless from camping in the park.

Urban Bruin on August 28, 2008, at 08:30AM – #10

“Haze”…what an appropriate name for a wayward mind…“Divine in Drag”? I’m sure I am, but enough about me and more about the issues. The issue is what we can do with the limited public space in downtown L.A.

As a downtown resident and worker, all I want is a place to enjoy some open space and let my dogs exercise. It’s not a question of people vs. dogs, homeless vs. dogs or children vs. dogs; rather can we better utilize the space available. By dedicating small portions of PUBLIC spaces for dog runs and children’s play areas we can offer more amenities to a greater amount of people living downtown. If that’s a bad thing please tell us why?

Karin Liljegren on August 28, 2008, at 09:10AM – #11

As a parent in Downtown LA, this is basically the ONLY park within Center City that I can take my 6 year old son to where there is nice grass to kick a ball around and a safe and clean playground. Also, there is a group of parents with smaller kids in downtown that have started a weekly playdate to meet there and get to know each other - VERY important for parents to have a space to connect with each other!!!

As an Architect and Urban Designer I hate the fence, but as a Mom, I think the fence has kept it more safe and clean. I say - different kinds of parks can have different emphasis - dog parks, kid parks, recreation parks, picnic parks, meandering walk parks, cafe/coffee sitting outside parks - we should have small parks with different emphasis AND bigger parks for all of those activities to mix.

RLK on August 28, 2008, at 09:45AM – #12

The Packard Lofts on Hope added grass to the tree planters two weeks ago. Now all the grass is dead due to all the dog activity. When will we all understand that pet waste is not friendly to these small pocket parks.

Urban Bruin on August 28, 2008, at 10:38AM – #13

Karin

I agree under the best of circumstances there would be different parks for different activities, but due to the high cost of land and the commercial density it’s not likely there will be the money or space for specialized parks. That’s why we need to make the most of what we have; in many other cities pocket parks the size of Grand Hope Park or smaller accommodate multiple uses. With dedicated spaces for different activities the surrounding community is better served. As for the grass issues, with an enclosed dog run most of all dog waste would be focused in that area with either sod or specialized grass.

I think some people are under the mistaken impression that dog owners don’t care about the community; that is far from the truth. Most downtown dog owners are responsible and curb their dogs. Given the opportunity to take our pets to a fenced dog run we’d gladly go there than make do with the public spaces not designed to accommodate our activities.

I invite anyone interested in meeting your dog owning neighbors to our monthly dog walk and neighborhood watch. We meet every 2nd Wednesday of the month at 6pm, Pershing Square.

Li on August 29, 2008, at 12:41PM – #14

"Also, there is a group of parents with smaller kids in downtown that have started a weekly playdate to meet there and get to know each other - VERY important for parents to have a space to connect with each other!!!"

Karin, I have a 16-month-old son and I'd love to learn more about this. Please contact me at liATaltvoxDOTcom or at www.underthealexandria.blogspot.com.

Sandie Richards on August 29, 2008, at 01:16PM – #15

Grand Hope Park is a beautiful space; I've loved sitting in its shady arbors with a steaming cup of delicious coffee from FIDM's little bistro. One drawback to the park is that if you want to have an event there (like a child's birthday party or other) you'll have to schedule it with FIDM folk and use the caterer they recommend. The FIDM folk are great; nonetheless, the park use is not fully open to the public as a Recreation and Parks operated space might be.

Norbie 7 on August 29, 2008, at 03:42PM – #16

One must use the caterer which FIDM recommends, in the use of this particular public space.

Sticky Fingers lives!

William on August 30, 2008, at 09:36AM – #17

The fence doesnt really bother me, in a way I think its a good thing to have to avoid it from turning into a homeless camp at night, or a South Park version of Pershing Square's needle usage sit...I like that park..and yes couples use the grass to roll around and touch each other daily haha

Purple Haze on August 30, 2008, at 11:53AM – #18

Yeah, reach out and touch someone, I say!

Every heard of Elysian? on August 31, 2008, at 11:14AM – #19

1) I'm a dog lover and have had dogs all my life. In fact, I prefer dogs over children, especially the parent / child / stroller culture that insidiously redefines an area for all, once the bourgeoisie feel the urge to breed (e.g. Silver Lake). "But is it safe for our little one?????" That said, when a dog shits, sure, his owner is responsible for picking up the mess. But is it really all gone? No. A dog shits on grass and even with a noble pull from a plastic bag, there's still shit on the grass. Dog urine burns grass and stinks (yes, toddler urine burns grass and stinks too, but dogs don't wear Diapers). Look at the disgusting Silver Lake "Dog Park" Litter Box as a prime, living, choking example of what dog use does to a "park." GHP should be looked at as a rare chance for you to stand barefoot in a patch of grass in this concrete desert you decided to call home. And when doing so, you dont want to stand barefoot in the residue of poodle shit. It's to everyone's benefit that Parks and Recs didn't want this patch of green. That's why it's nice.

2) Take a trip to dog-crazy, once-dog-shit-stained Paris. Until the city stepped up their sidewalk cleaning program (LA, please take note and fast), it was part of the Parisian experience to watch someone scrape dog shit off his shoe. Parisian parks have fences. Gorgeous parks. Historical parks. Parks of legend. And most do not allow dogs. Why? To keep them from looking like the Silver Lake Dog Park Litter Box.

3) I'm routinely astounded when I heard DTers bemoan the lack of green / park space downtown when you can physically see an enormous park just north of where we all live. (Ok, it's NW, yes, as DT is "bent.) I routinely walk to Elysian Park. It's a 15 minute walk thru Chinatown. TONS of space. TONS of green. Wilderness. And spaces where your dog can run off leash, shit in the bushes (where he wants to shit anyway) and actually get some exercise. Where is this lack of green space I keep reading about? Oh! I see the problem: it's not convenient for you. You choose to have a dog, but you want a litter box a few feet past saying hi to your concierge. Come on, people. If you choose to have a dog in DT, you should figure out what's best for the dog, not only what's convenient for you.

Juanito is AT IT again on August 31, 2008, at 03:02PM – #21

If a monument symbolic of Los Angeles cannot be built in Downtown, then it ought best be built in Elysian Park.

And a big (huge) Thank You to 'Ever heard of Elysian Park'; I think I can hear one particular Weimareimer howling in the distance.

Brian on August 31, 2008, at 06:18PM – #22

I appreciate the comments here and learning about my new home of downtown LA.

One thing becoming more and more apparent is how un-dog friendly the city is.

We have been to Elysian Park - it's a great place. At the same time, those of us with pets need to take them out numerous times per day in order to go to the bathroom. The statement that dog owners do not take their dogs there because it is not convenient just don't hold water. I'd love a space to take our dog for a walk amongst some grass.

I do not understand (a) why developers are not required to build in green space within their developments and (b) who developers think are going to buy the massive inventory of places in the next few years when there are no parks to take their kids and/or pets.

Economics on September 01, 2008, at 10:42AM – #23

If I were a developer, catering to people's dog needs would be one of the last things on my mind. Dogs only increase liability, especially when there are children present, and waste.

Brian on September 01, 2008, at 01:33PM – #24

Economics: Again, it's not about dogs only. It's about the aesthetic look of the area, a place for people to walk and enjoy, and about pets and kids.

As a new downtown resident I do not understand why developers are not on the hook for from the city to provide green space, flowers, trees and other functional and aesthetically pleasing areas. Instead "Joe Developer" throws some money into the Quimby fund and it sits there. Worse yet, it's my understanding that the Quimby fund requires the funds be spent within a 2 mile radius which makes very little sense.

I love all the action downtown, but if you though the city of Los Angeles was a concrete jungle before - it's only getting worse with all the new developments under construction as well as those planned.

I will state it again - as un-dog friendly as the city is - it's not just about people and their pets.

Juanito on September 01, 2008, at 01:54PM – #26

In Downtown, the Pitbulls are to be found at City Haul, and in the executive suites.

In Downtown, the alleys smell like human turds, and Pershing Square will someday surely smell like dog turds.

In Downtown, the Poodles (miniature and larger) are to be seen on culture row. Bulldogs can be found prior to games at the Palm, stuffing it all in. Watch out for that Rottweiller on West First Street; it is in control.

Meanwhile, Germans Shepards are housed at Parker Center, Airedales spend their workdays at the planning department, all the hot Chihuahuas mark their realms at school headquarters, Terriers in their bow ties design high up at 444 South Flower, Golden Retrievers are where else? - at Golds, Wolfhounds bark at Main Central Library - whenever a supplicant complains about the gawd-awfull microfilm machines, Lhasa Apsos chase the ghost of Madame Wu on North Broadway, Belgian Sheepdogs sweep the gutters, Cocker Spaniels tote their bills of particulars at Building and Safety, Chow Chow presides at the Water Grill - watch those nostrils flare!

Brian on September 01, 2008, at 04:44PM – #27

Thanks for the insight Eric - can you give me a brief run down of what constitutes open space?

JM on September 02, 2008, at 12:15AM – #28

This used to be my neighborhood park and I still look at it with great affection. It's a good example of a small urban park, and I'm actually pretty happy it's dog-free. Wish there were more parks like this dotted around Downtown. Thanks for the background info.

Downtown resident on January 19, 2010, at 07:21PM – #29

Yes! that fence say's "hey i am a private park! watch out!

how funny the park hours similar to the Schools ! hummmmm

anyway this park needs to be more kid friendly! kids cannot use their bikes even though i see a bike lane!

the school closes ti too often for their parties!

can i have my kids b-day party there?

i won't deny it's a nice park but is it looks like the schools owns it most of the time!

dogs here are fine being out ! i don't wish to see poop there too! all over downtown some are leaving their dog poop!

come on make it more kid friendly! that's all i ask!

the halloween party was better the 1st year! it's nice though!

Norbie 7 on January 19, 2010, at 08:50PM – #30

Grand Hope Park: a private space for the school next door. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for pointing it out. Halprin must of that that too, when the fence got put up.