Filming Discussion Shows Many Interests, Little Common Ground

Ok, so what Sarah of MPA is saying is that a major film/TV production needing to move people, equipment, sets, etc. to a remote location does not know more than 24-hours in advance that they need to do so and must secure a permit? I know nothing about the entertainment industry but from my vantage point that seems a weak argument.

filmla has a 24-hour desk so that a production can get a film permit processed in less than 24 hours. they promote and encourage it because they don’t want anything (like common sense, courtesy, advance notification) getting in the way of a film permit being issued (read: $$$). as someone who has worked production and currently produces independent films, that’s great for productions that aren’t organized and don’t have their acts together. as a resident, thanks filmla for inflicting those lame-ass productions onto the downtown community - you’re making a buck at our expense.

It is the height of laziness and arrogance to run a business so that courtesy to a community (that is literally invaded) is unimportant.

To make it easier for the film industry to make money, the many local businesses have their income drastically cut by the inconvenience of filming. This helps the economy? How?

Another win for the filming industry. This is why our great city will never reach the levels of Chicago or New York. While when I first moved downtown it was something of a novelty to see filming occur, the first blast that rocked my building at 1:30am followed by a helicopter shaking the building has exposed the unfortunate reality of the filming industry. They need to get their film shot, neighbors be damned. Whoever is going to do business will be more flexible because there has been such movement of the film industry to other areas, however wouldn’t it be great if there was just a small fee set aside for beautification of downtown? Even if it was $50, $20 or even $10, if every permit required a small beautification fee, imagine the difference we could make in areas that need it. Call me a dreamer, I know that the film industry is far too strong to ever truly argue this point, but a guy can dream.

There has been little movement of the film industry to other areas, that is their constant lie to get concessions from local government. Filming is at an all time high, especially with a weak dollar that makes it expensive out of the US. The costs in Los Angeles are minimal. It’s all corporate BS.

Having lived downtown for more than nine months, now, I can understand people being frustrated with the film industry. I’ve been frustrated, annoyed, even infuriated, at times. Sure, it once took me almost 45 minutes to get from the 4th St. 101 exit to our parking lot at 6th and Spring. Sure, I once had to drive around our block twice, once to drop off my dogs in front our apartment, then once more to get parked. But the film industry feeds a lot of businesses downtown. Personally, I think it’s worth the hassles we get. All I would ask, from the industry, is that they remember that they’re in our way, when their camera’s set up right in our building’s entrance. We’re not trying to disrupt a shoot, we’re just trying to get home in a hurry to let the dogs out on our lunch break. I think downtown residents are more than courteous enough. It would only be fair that the film industry return the favor. Why not? If we walk by a shoot at 11 at night with our dogs, why not say hello? If we run into a shoot at 7am going to work, how about a cup of coffee? Downtown’s full of one way streets. The film industry’s presence there doesn’t have to be one.

Because they don’t care about you or your dogs.

That’s my point. They should care. It wouldn’t be a very expensive trade off for having the ability to film pretty much whenever they want to. It’d be a better “relationship” if they cared and didn’t have to worry so much about getting permits in time, than if they if they got their permits ahead of time and proceeded to be nothing more than a bother. Of course, right now, they get their permits at the last minute, and are a bother, but the idea of the discussion was to put an end to that, no?

I spend 8 months in negotiations with the industry on behalf of the film industry to negotiate special conditions for filming in downtown LA. Those conditions WILL be sent to City Council by the end of this year.

I can assure you that the industry does not care about the residents in downtown LA. They see them as an annoyance, but worse than that, their attitude is that if you move downtown, you do not deserve the respect that other residential areas deserve.

All they care about is getting their shot. They look down on downtown, and see it and treat it as a dumping ground, a means to an end. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that will change. The RFP and the Conditions will make it LAW for them to change their behavior. They won’t do it by themselves.

There will be a presentation very soon at the DLANC board meeting, either this month or next, of the revised filming conditions. (note that these Conditions are separate from the RFP, which is the terms of the city’s contract for film permitting services).

The Film Industry has been filming in downtown for 100 years, how long have you lived there? The above comment is correct in that its DOWNTOWN….try to remember that, It wasnt meant for residents and never was.

It you choose to live in the center of a commerce district you should be bound by the rules of that commerce zone! Its a commerce center and therefore should be use as such.

more whining………………..its a tough business………downtown has been good to the film & tv industry………..great locations……………jack english……location manager

What I am not seeing in the article or comments is the fact that the productions cut “loss of business” checks to the merchants that are in the immediate area of impact. Some of these checks range anywhere from $200 for a few hours to $5,000 for a whole day. This is not required by law, but rather to secure the property / merchant owner’s signature for the filming permit. More often than not, the amount is far above the profit the business would typically make. Ask them about this.

Regardless of how long the film industry has been using downtown as a backlot, their time is up. Things change. I didn’t move here to live on a backlot. Nor did I move into the Universal backlot.

Basicallly, the film industry is fucked. Boo hoo. They can’t afford to rape cheap labor out of the country as much as they used to. And now, with downtown becoming a mixed-use neighborhood, they’re going to be faced with tighter restrictions like in New York.

So sad that Legally Blonde 12 will have to shoot somewhere else.

Very little sympathy should be afforded an industry that had plenty of opportunity to invest in Downtown real estate to preserve it as a frequent filming location.

Downtown residential properties are as old as Downtown.

Filming interrupts more than just residents businesses are impacted as well.

The entertainment industry needs to temper its arrogance and the rest of Los Angeles needs to remind them the world and our local economy does not all revolve around tinseltown.

No matter what anyone here thinks, the film industry downtown is not going anywhere. Most productions and location managers do try to work with the businesses and residents who live downtown, THAT’S THEIR JOB, although there are a few location managers out there who don’t care (if they don’t care their days as a location manager are numbered, believe me). It’s always been a BUSINESS DISTRICT, but now is more and more residential. Downtown LA is a backlot, and creates a wonderful picturesque place to film, otherwise they wouldn’t have been coming here for the last 100 years. The fact remains that in most cases, productions pay the local businesses for the loss of income, and if you aren’t negotiating a fee for that, you are the ones who are losing out. By creating business and neighborhood groups downtown, band together and then when the productions arrive you can already have set fees and restrictions for the intrusion, and work with these companies instead of fighting them. How do you think Harry Loomer made all his money from the parking lots? He and his family have been negotiating rates for years, and gotten very rich from it. There will be the lower budget productions, who can’t afford to pay fees, so negotiate based on the overall budget of the production. Believe me when I say fighting the studios will get you nothing but frustration and anger, working with them makes so much more sense. It works both ways, and how many of us have seen business owners or residents out of their minds, screaming and yelling at the cops and crew to get out, and just getting the brush off. Standing on a corner screaming while filming is going on makes you look like a fool. If you help set the rules most will abide by the rules, if they don’t, how about a set of penalties, monetary or otherwise in place through filmla and the city council, which will banish the production companies from getting future film permits (and location managers) who have broken the rules. (Does anyone remember the “Demolition Man” meltdown from the 90’s??, we are still seeing the aftermath from that 15 years later, which did benefit downtown residents and businesses, and did affect the studio and the location manager’s work after the “incident”) That’s the way to hit them where it hurts, make them personally liable if they do take advantage of you. This will eventually weed out the bad eggs, and make it more of a set standard for the honest ones, who really do care about what they do, and how affects your daily life. Regarding the 24 or 48 hour permit, most of these companies do not do it this way, but some are forced into it by outside events (most notably the weather, but periodically by talent availability, or loss of locations in other parts of the city). They don’t intentionally do it to make life miserable for everyone involved, and the periodic waiver seems justified under certain circumstances. Lastly, most of the readers here don’t know the economics of the film industry, and you would be shocked how much money is infused into the LA economy from not just the LA studios but from all over the world. The income lost if it all just went away would be staggering. Not hundreds, not thousands, not even millions, but tens of millions are spent on this industry just in the downtown area each year. Every city council member and elected official in LA county (and California) is aware of this, and makes his or her voting “yeah’s or nah’s” based on this information. No complaints from the average Joe that lives downtown, is going to get anywhere with that kind of economic information in the mix in this day and age.

Bert B, you obviously do not own a business downtown that has been refused any form of compensation from filming. Guess what? Compensation to businesses is rare. It is usually ONLY given to property owners, not businesses. In the instances where a business is paid, it is almost always a a result of the business NOT being informed or accommodated, and then being paid to shut them up.

In our exhaustive discussions with the industry, the idea that ANY form of punitive action would be taken against ANYONE in the film industry was soundly rejected. Besides, the companies that film downtown are formed and dissolved frequently, and might have a different name the next time. How do you police that?

It is also not true that it is only some productions or location managers are bad eggs. It has more to do with the TYPE of filming being done. Features are the best organized, they make their arrangements well in advance and do the best job of informing and working with people. TV is a mixed bag, but the ones that film regularly are pretty good about working with the community.

It is the commercials that are much less considerate, and the music videos which are the worst.

It is NOT true that downtown was never residential. That is the main problem with filming reps. The people living downtown don’t matter to them. In the old days there were many more people living downtown than today. The CRA simply tore down those buildings (Bunker Hill, Crown Hill, etc). You’re just not old enough to remember.

During the negotiations, we looked closely at the regional financial benefit from location filming. It is rather small. You are confusing it with the industry in general. Location filming is a small part of the industry. The primary benefit to the area is through payroll and subcontracting. The industry is mostly tax-exempt. Look it up.

The benefit to downtown from the new residents, the real estate development, and the new businesses is much higher than from location filming. Uncontrolled filming was a fine use when the area was abandoned. Guess what? It’s not that way anymore.

Anyway, the whole point of the new rules is not to STOP filming but to make it behave. Just like you or I who have to obey the law, so now do they.

Government. Law. Finance. Fashion. Jewelry. Real estate. Non-motion picture entertainment (sports, concerts, stage).

These are just a few of the sectors that Downtown Los Angeles serves as the regional epicenter.

I’m not afraid to say there are products and brands I will never buy because of the behavior of their respective productions Downtown – Verizon, the Ford Edge, Criminal Minds, Transformers.

I imagine that some of the 500,000 people that populate Downtown on any given weekday agree. Perhaps a higher percentage of similar spirits would be found in the 50,000+ residents Downtown on the weekends.

It’s to the point where residents and businesses need to by-pass FilmLA and contact the studios, networks or corporate offices of the products in the commercials to make certain the behavior of the crews shooting Downtown is conveyed to the decision makers. And if the record labels for the music videos don’t care, perhaps then the major retailers caring those labels would.

If this needs to be put in terms of an economic battle, I think Downtowners (including business owners and workers) should start weighing in with their wallets and purses and letting these companies know why they will be boycotted in the future.

Be sure your complaints are righteous, factual and unambiguous with the resulting economic boycott of their brand or product (even if it is the film or show itself).

Maybe then production crews will begin to understand the self-inflicted nature their errant behavior has on their sustainability.

Bert Green, you are right I am not a business owner downtown, never would I want to get involved with the headaches affiliated with studios, production companies, and location managers in the downtown area on a continued basis. You are probably right that it’s impossible to punish persons or companies in direct violation of permits. But “what if” we were to prevent a company from getting permits issued in the downtown area because of violations for let’s say 3 months or 6 months at a time? LA County has the right to restrict permits to production companies in violation of Child Labor Laws and the documented violations in the “harm of” live animals in film production. Production companies have to post their LA County Permits for employing children and the use of live animals in their production offices. And yes, those laws have been broken and yes LA County has pulled their permits in the past for those violations. (Usually for one year. They can still shoot, but not with child actors or animals during that time). I believe all the violations were with commercial production companies. If they were treated the same way for film permit violations would they pay more attention to the residents and business owners? Wouldn’t that hit them right in the pocketbook?? You Betcha!

Another point…how many downtown businesses have or will go under with the current economic crisis?? For the entire US the estimates for the next 12 months are 80,000 companies going bankrupt, lets say 50 in the downtown LA area?? More?? What if filming is curtailed as well? The economic downturn is going to affect us all, in a way we have never seen the likes of since the 1930’s.

I agree a lot of the agressors and infractions are a result from commercials or music video shoots, but mainly from lack of experience on the producers and location managers part, AND a lot of the commercial and music video production companies that make the majority of trouble for downtown residents have been around for a while, they just keep getting away with it over and over again. You are right that it does have to do with the type of filming, every shoot is different.

As far as compensation to businesses downtown, you add up all the direct fees paid to buildings, lofts, apartments, (Harry Lumer?) and businesses directly affected, either for use of, or indirect use of adds up to a hefty amount each year. Take into account the total payment to crews, vendors, hotels, caterers etc… If not here then let’s say TORONTO subbing for the LA area. Even with the devaluation of the all might buck, it’s still a lot of money. Example: A typical commercial has 8 -10 people from Minneapolis or New York AD agencies staying at let’s say the Boneventure Hotel, for 10 -12 days at 250.00 a night per room. Add it up for just one commercial and how many commercials are shot downtown every year? 700? 800? ( I really don’t know) A simple 4 day car shoot filming downtown has an average location budget of $25,000 - $30,000 (Granted this includes security and police). What do you think Transformers had for it’s location budget? 6-8 million?? Less? More??

I do remember people living downtown in the 70’s and 80’s, and yes there were a lot of them, when it was more of a trend to have an artist loft, and my oh my was it cheap to rent or own, just like it was at the Brewery before the rates went sky high. So you must be talking about downtown in the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s if your thinking of that volume of people in that area, but hey there have always been a lot of people living downtown, the demographics have changed, and there are a lot more very prominent people living downtown now. The more Maxine Waters that live here, the better off we will all be, because the rules will be steadfast and enforced, and if you break the rules with Maxine around God help you…

I’ve worked on features, television, commercials, and music videos downtown, and I can tell you there are some bad location managers amoung the ones I’ve had the pleasure to work with in regard to being fair with the downtown businesses and residents. In the case of one show I worked on; “Swordfish”, I think all the location managers were first rate and fair overall to the businesses and residents, considering the circumstances i.e. an Ericksson Helicopter carrying a bus through the city streets… creating havock for everyone, and believe me, I never want to go through that again. 175 PA’s, 45 police, 5 location managers, almost 900 cast and crew members, 110 teamsters just in the transportation dept. Everyone downtown hated us on that show, including all the other productions and studios trying to work there.

In my view there needs to be one FilmLa rep on every shoot every day, plus one active duty LAPD officer in charge (Make the city pay them and then the city charges the production company for the salaries with a markup so the city can make money on it). They can both make decisions on the spot regarding violations, and to work with the public directly. This will insure proper film posting, permit accuracy, and hopefully intelligent interpretation of what is and what is not allowed for filming, and to insure businesses and residents receive a fair shake in this topsy turvey world of fliming downtown.

doesn’t matter, under the current system, the lapd officer will not get rehired if they don’t do whatever the production wants them to do. that’s why the system needs to be changed. and have you tried to get the filmla rep on a set to even bother addressing your concerns? follow the money - filmla gets their $$ from the production companies, from the payment of film permits and they want to make sure they keep getting it, so what makes you think they’d oppose anything the prodco wants?

the prodcos form what are called single purpose vehicles (SPVs). it is nothing to form another one when your previous one is called out for something, like violating the los angeles municipal code. here’s a proposal that could be added to the terms, make the location manager and the AD responsible. won’t happen thanks to DGA and IATSE, but if it were to happen, then ADs and location managers who have worked for productions which have violated ordinances wouldn’t be able to get permits for their current productions. that’s one way to weed out the “bad eggs”.

when a change was made to the los angeles municipal code, allowing the adaptive reuse ordinance to become effective in 2001, downtown los angeles became residential. end of story. now it’s up to the city council to be reminded that what they started with adaptive reuse has to be upheld - they made this residential, logic follows that they treat downtown like any other neighborhood. if less than 24-hour notice won’t fly in pacific palisades, west los angeles, mid-wilshire, or anywhere else, then it shouldn’t be downtown, either.

for the record, one of my film projects was shot in michigan, primarily because of their state tax program. i would love to shoot in downtown los angele, hell i would love to shoot in california, but the problem is at a state level, not at a city level. until the state gets up to speed in offering the same kind of economic incentives to keep filming in this state, filmmakers will continue to look at michigan, louisiana, north carolina, and new mexico.

Celia,

The permit services such as Film Permits Unlimited supply the retired LAPD when the request comes in for police. Productions do not deny police work because of work history. I agree in some cases officers are specifically requested by the production team, but usually not and they get whoever is lined up by the permit coordinator in the permit service office. Most of the time it’s whoever is in the rotation lineup. The biggest problem is “Sargent Durant” driving around downtown making a name for himself and his ego, disrupting film shoots on behalf of Bratton, periodically pounding his chest in front of the retired LAPD on film sets, and just plain making an ass out of himself. He’s created friction and has caused everyone to balance on a tightrope, wondering if they are about to fall off.

If your point was true then LAPD retired officer Bob Wheeler would never work again. He’s notorious for sticking to the rules and siding with the public in disputes on set, yet Bob Wheeler is still one of the most active retired cops on sets even today. Why, because he’s an honest Joe and is respected … period. He’s not alone, there are many retired LAPD cops working that don’t do lip service to the production companies, they go by the rules and will not bend the rules for the producers. Granted there are a few cops out there that brush off residents and business complaints on the day, but you can count those individuals on one hand.

As for FilmLA reps, most of them stick to the rules too, and make the production stay in compliance with the permit. If they don’t there should be a reporting system to weed out unqualified FilmLA reps.

Adaptive reuse doesn’t mean downtown simply became residential in 2001. It means residents share space with downtown businesses. Downtown is not like Pacific Palasades. There are probably more businesses downtown now compared to 2001, and certainly more residents, but they still have to share the space and consequences for making the decision to work and live there.

As for the issue of bad eggs, there are production companies who do not hire location managers based on their past history. Call it a black list or whatever, it does exist, and it’s purely based on problems in the past with businesses and residents complaining to FilmLA about a specific person. Producers are simply told by production executives not to hire this person or that person.

You are right that state tax incentives are drawing film production away from california, and more than likely that’s not going to change very soon, the lawmakers in this state simply won’t pass a resolution that mirrors the ones in NY, MI, IL, LA, NM and a few other states. They feel Los Angeles is the center of film production and will always be, no matter what the economy is like and what tax incentives are out there. Of course this is absolutely wrong, which is proven by the increased filming in NY over the last 2 years because of as huge troft of cash they are offering producers, in rebates and matched funds.

Bert B, you say that “The biggest problem is “Sargent Durant” driving around downtown making a name for himself and his ego, disrupting film shoots on behalf of Bratton, periodically pounding his chest in front of the retired LAPD on film sets, and just plain making an ass out of himself. ”

The community has never before had someone whose job it is to ENFORCE permits. Duran does that. He is the first person in that job, and since he has been doing it, film companies are obeying the law a lot more than before because the off duty officers face losing their licenses if they do not enforce. You may not like him, and he may not be the best man for that job, but he has been very effective in forcing the rent-a-cops to stop looking the other way when productions violate permit conditions.

I agree with you that there should be an active duty cop on every shoot. Unfortunately the film industry fought that idea, and the Police department cannot spare the officers. The production companies would have to pay for it, and they always cry foul, that it would force them to leave town. The usual bullshit.

Bert Green, I’m all for someone like Sargent Durant overseeing the retired cops, just give us someone who can do his job properly instead of a raving maniac. It’s one thing to have an enforcer overseeing the ranks, and personally making sure these companies comply with the permits, it’s another of having someone that videotapes film sets from secret locations, temporarily shuts down productions while he inspects the permits, and grills the retired guys on proper attire, all the while production is halted and then goes longer than they projected, and then they have to try to get an extension on the permit at the last minute, just making residents and business owners more furious. Then, if they don’t make their day, they have to come back and shoot yet another day at the same location.

Personally I would assign a Captain within the LAPD with senior ranking authority to oversee filming downtown. Use the mark-up money the city charges for the LAPD to pay his salary. Better yet, LaFilm is non profit, has money in it’s coffers ( I hear, but not a fact as far as I know) so let them pay him.

I believe the film industry was finally “gradually” opening up to having one active duty cop on each shoot, but is still opposed to eliminating all the retired cops from the work force. The biggest complaint was the fact that the rates go up from @$48.00/hr what they pay now to @$88.00/hr, what the city estimates the fee would be by using off duty active LAPD cops. As with all things in this world the bottom line usually begins with the almighty buck.

Bratton’s other problem was he wanted to cover all events in LA, including film shoots, awards shows, music videos, commercials, movie premiers, still shoots, video shoots, feature films, tv production, concerts, parades…etc all under one office at the LAPD. This would be a huge undertaking, and the publics’ main concern is safety and getting the bad guys off the streets. Why not start out small and see how things progress, with lets say one LAPD cop for every commercial car shoot downtown? Small steps lead to bigger steps, which can lead to a progressive change in the overall way things are done (hopefully for the better). If they say “stop!”, this is the way we are going to do this now, all your going to get is anger and frustration from both sides of the fence.

“Granted there are a few cops out there that brush off residents and business complaints on the day, but you can count those individuals on one hand.”

too bad the good ones get assigned to pacific palisades and downtown gets the ones that won’t enforce film permits. please, numbers are the easiest thing to manipulate. show me where the good ones are, i can count the ones i’ve encountered on one hand and run out of fingers and toes counting the bad ones.

“As for FilmLA reps, most of them stick to the rules too, and make the production stay in compliance with the permit. If they don’t there should be a reporting system to weed out unqualified FilmLA reps.”

again, i charge that downtown gets all the ones are disrespectful and dismissive towards residents and small businesses.

“I’m all for someone like Sargent Durant overseeing the retired cops, just give us someone who can do his job properly instead of a raving maniac. ”

i’m all for retired cops overseeing the film productions, just give us someone whose compensation isn’t tied to the production or has oversight by the lapd. what, you don’t like raving maniacs? because we’ve had them filming downtown for too long, aided by the retired cop sitting on his motorcycle ignoring all the permit violations.

“It’s one thing to have an enforcer overseeing the ranks, and personally making sure these companies comply with the permits, it’s another of having someone that videotapes film sets from secret locations, temporarily shuts down productions while he inspects the permits, and grills the retired guys on proper attire, all the while production is halted… ”

too often, the filmla rep and retired lapd officer are sent to vamp while the crew gets its shot, further enraging the residents who are complaining because it’s 3am and the prodco has ignored noise ordinances, never mind film permit violations. so i call bullshit to that idea. if they’re in violation, it does need to be investigated and if you can’t roll cameras while that’s going on, that’s not my problem as a resident. and why is videotaping a film set from any location a problem unless you have something to hide like evidence of a permit violation?

“The biggest complaint was the fact that the rates go up from @$48.00/hr what they pay now to @$88.00/hr, what the city estimates the fee would be by using off duty active LAPD cops. As with all things in this world the bottom line usually begins with the almighty buck.”

i’m a producer and if $48hour vs $88/hour for one officer is going to break my budget and cause me to film elsewhere other than downtown los angeles, then i would have to say i’m not a very good producer and have no business filming in downtown los angeles anyway. here’s another thought, maybe if we had officers who actually enforced permits we wouldn’t need a filmla rep on the set, unless of course it was just to justify filmla’s existence.

I agree with Celia. This would not even be a problem if there were any accountability or any desire on the part of location filing production companies to be good neighbors.

In my experience, it is a minority of productions that are respectful and courteous. Although I must say, that since we have held the industry to task, it has gotten much better.

But the film industry reps who we met with simply REFUSED to consider changing the rules to have on-duty police enforcing shoot conditions. I am all for it, as is Bert B., but the studios, the unions, the associations are all adamantly opposed.

Are those the City’s numbers of the industry’s estimates for the increased costs of moving from retired officers to off-duty active officers on overtime?

Contrary to what seems conveyed here, the only costs incurred are the actual overtime and perhaps some administrative overhead fee but considering there are already a number of such standing overtime rosters (i.e. LAX detail), I imagine the additional overhead inside the Department would be nominal.

According to the CAO, a Poilce Officer 1 (PO1) hourly pay is roughly $36 to $51 per hour for overtime at 1.5x:

http://www.lacity.org/cao/MOUs/MOU24-09.pdf – (page 117 of the pdf)

Also, wouldn’t the production company also gets a reduction in administrative costs because it is not processing payroll for as many employees when using off duty active officers? The studios and production companies would also be off the hook for workers comp and/or unemployment contributions because the City would remain the employer.

So, I for one, am curious as to where the $88 per hour figure being bounced around comes from…

Benjamin,

Bratton was the one who quoted the $88/hr rate in his interview from his public radio interviews called “Ask The Chief” with Pat Morrison, so it came from the city (If he can speak for the city) and I believe it was a rough estimate. This is based on a 27% markup from the city for Admininstrative & P & H cost, so the officers won’t be making the full $88.00/hr. I don’t know if this includes P & H contributions, but the fringe norm is @ 18% for non union timecards from a production standpoint, so union timecards could be as much as the $27% with the admin cost. Yes the production company is off the hook for unemployment and workmans’ comp insurance if the city took over the duties.

As far as retired cops, it’s based on their ranking; as low as $36.00/hr and up to $54.00/hr plus the $50.00 per day motorcycle money (cash usually). They are no P & H contributions and they are on a non union timecard. So the $48.00/hr is probably a high average (without the motor money included). This is comparable to other parts of the city (say Santa Monica), when you use local police for filming, and the CHP rates when let’s say your filming on the 105 freeway near LAX. But those are all off duty active cops. Retired cops pay their own health insurance from these rates, unless they are old enough to be vested in the health care and pension from LAPD.

And no, none of these estimates are based on overtime. The standard is 1.5 after 8 hours, and 2X after 12. There is no limit on the hours retired LAPD can work on a film shoot. Off duty active LAPD would have restrictions, depending on whether they have a shift the following day. And yes, in the case of emergencies, active duty cops can leave the film set to pursue criminals and whatnot, retired LAPD have no jurisdiction in that regard, and if lets say there were a crime committed in front of them, they would have to call 911 like any other resident of the city, or call LAPD dispatch from their cell phone.

Benjamin:

Sorry I misquoted the rates for retired LAPD:

A standard P-2 motorcycle cop (retired) makes $49.18/hr on film sets as of July 1, 2008.

Again this can vary depending on the ranking of the officer… if he (or she) is a SGT-1 Motor the rates are slightly higher, but most of the retired cops have a P-2 ranking. In some cases the ranking can be lower, hence the pay is slightly lower.

Bert Green,

Just to clarify an earlier point you made. “Filming is at an all time high”… actually commercials shooting in the downtown area this year are in a major decline, possibly the lowest than they have been since Sept. 2001. The beginning of 2008 was very active for commercials, but by March, they all but stopped and never fully recovered. TV production is up in general, and has been increasing for several years… feature film days are certainly lower this year, mainly due to the WGA strike and the potential SAG strike. And BTW at the end of March 2009, there is a very good chance there will be another commercial SAG strike.

“Off duty active LAPD would have restrictions, depending on whether they have a shift the following day.”

Not likely a concern as most officers work 3/12s and would take the film set OT on their days off and could be prohibited from any OT assignments the day before their scheduled duty watch.

“And yes, in the case of emergencies, active duty cops can leave the film set to pursue criminals and whatnot, retired LAPD have no jurisdiction in that regard, and if lets say there were a crime committed in front of them, they would have to call 911 like any other resident of the city, or call LAPD dispatch from their cell phone.”

And the problem with cops going after criminals Downtown instead of guys in uniforms with cellphones is what exactly? Filming is slightly delayed as public safety is preserved? Do film crews condone crime Downtown while they are working? I would think film productions would want cops with the ability to make arrests working their sets, no? What is the downside exactly?

To the best of my knowledge, and I am not an expert on the PPL’s MOUs, there are no pension and health contributions stemming from overtime. Those costs are met by the City as part of the officer’s base employment. Your health insurance does not cost any more just because you work overtime. Nor is your pension contribution from the City increased. It is not like the hourly credit system in place in the motion picture industry health and pension fund.

The best part, and what I think OCOP is really looking at, is the plus for recruitment and retention that would come from regular film set overtime work for rank and file active duty officers.

Bert B, my statement that “Filming is at an all time high” is based on Film LA’s figures in a recent report on downtown filming. I should have said “in downtown.”

I do not distinguish between feature, TV, and commercial. I get email notifications of all shoots in the historic core and they come in fast and furious. There have been as many as 90 a week downtown over the past year, and sometimes as few as 10 or 15 a week. That’s a lot of shooting.

Again, fundamentally, it’s not the filming that’s the problem. It’s the abuse. And as I have said, it HAS gotten better over the past year, because Film LA has put in place temporary rules which are more strict than the ones we propose. They are currently voluntary rules. We want to make ours law.

Benjamin,

I wasn’t trying to make a point regarding the cops… I was just stating the facts pertaining to retired LAPD cops on film sets. You are right that a cop with full credentials would be better to have on film sets, or for that matter, anywhere downtown, regardless of what role they are playing, that’s one of the reasons I suggested having an active duty police officer on each film shoot. I thought if you had the exact figures on the cops pay, you would see why Bratton might win or lose his battle, or why the studios and production companies win or lose their battles. It seems like residents and business owners are losing out like they always have (I think the city council is going to vote no on this new proposal).

I also think there is a reason these active duty cops work 3 - 12 hour days; because they need time off in between to relieve the stress levels due to the type of work they do, and if they are working their days off, what’s to say one of them someday will just go “postal” anytime anywhere. So there needs to be a good plan in place when this begins (I believe it will eventually happen).

I might seem like I’m rambling on this blog, but my intention is to continue and support the dialogue most of you have already started, and the more information all of us have, the better. That’s why things seem to be better now than they were 5 or 10 or 20 years ago, people became more active, more educated on the process, more informed on the whole, which gives you a better chance of working with filmla, city hall, the studios etc… and the more people who read these blogs (Location Managers, AD’s, Producers/PM’s) more will be sympathetic to the frustration, anger and passion of the residents and businesses of downtown. Obviously most of you here have much more experience, and have been fighting your fights for a long time. I’m just hoping to enlighten the readers so you can gain more support.

The City has little choice but to side with law and order and protect itself from the liability generated from having people wearing the City’s uniform and badge.

Today offered a perfect example, a retired officer “closing” the Second Street Tunnel in the middle of the afternoon for a production parked near the LA Times building. I literally saw a dozen cars detoured because this officer had simply parked his bike in the eastbound lanes at Figueroa and was directing traffic elsewhere. When I stopped and asked whether or not they had a permit for a full closure, I was told they did not. My response, so why are you doing it? Sound of crickets.

I see two things in the future if this issue is not corrected:

1) A citizen who is the victim of crime (property or otherwise) while a retired officer sits on his motorcycle, watches and does nothing sues the City and the production company that employed the officer in uniform.

2) People begin to ignore the direction of the retired officers because they know the officers lack authority to enforce the law.

This may be one where Los Angeles calls the industry’s bluff on production flight…

Benjamin,

One thing that will always happen, even if all were Active Duty LAPD; the officer does have some discretion, depending on traffic conditions. If you read the permits, it does allow for LAPD discretion for certian things “At officers discretion” is clearly marked on some permits. I’ll bet you money that one day you’ll see active duty officers doing the same thing. Not that the one in this case was doing the right thing, obviously he wasn’t if it was peak traffic hours at the 2nd street tunnel. And sometimes they do this on their own, and are NOT asked to do it from locations or the AD.

What private corporation should be given the right to have this kind of “discretion?” We are not talking here about public safety, but about profit for a private commercial entity, at the expense of the public right of way.

Ys, it may say it on the permit, but it is exactly this kind of thing that makes the public HATE location filming.

I have to ask the two obvious questions to Bert B:

1. You sound like you work for FilmLA or for a producer - who do you work for?

2. Where do you live? I’m sure it can’t be downtown in the Historic Core, because it doesn’t sound like you have ever run into any of the disasterous situations that we residents have been subjected to.

Frankly, Bert B - you have a very pollyanna view of how you THINK the film industry conducts itself downtown - but it is apparent that you are not an eye witness nor have been subjected to what we have, such as:

• Being bullied and physically threatened by off-duty production rent-a-cops.

• Being woken up in the middle of the night by audio playback from a rap video in the middle of Spring Street within 100 feet of your home that FilmLA never notified the neighborhood about, and the FilmLA hotline operator insists that the production has packed up and left while you are yelling over the audio playback in order for that same hotline operator to hear you.

• Having spot lights directed into your car on Main Street, so bright that you cannot see in front of you.

• Having a spot light rigged to a scissor lift pointed directly into your bedroom on the 9th floor of your building, and having FilmLA, the Executive Producer of the production, the rent-a-cop and LAPD refuse to do anything about it.

• Having a helicopter hover for over an hour over your building after 11:00 PM on a Sunday night within 50 feet of your rooftop, so loud that you cannot be heard on the phone - while it violates FAA rules.

• Being subjected to provane verbal assault simply because you want to continue walking down the sidewalk and an AD insists that their permit provides them with the ability to block public access, and they are wrong.

We are tired of it. There is no excuse. This is a residential neighborhood - and your splitting hairs is irrelevant. Call it “commercially zoned”. Call it Hollywood’s original back lot. Call it whatever you want to rationalize bad behavior. There are THOUSANDS of residents now living downtown having their lives repeatedly disrupted by production companies and FilmLA breaking the law. Period. End of discussion.

We have given the film industry and FilmLA more than enough opportunities to clean up their acts - but they CHOOSE (yes CHOOSE) not to.

Downtown Owner,

I do not live downtown, but I live very close to downtown (within 4 minutes of 4th and Main, is that close enough for you?). I have witnessed everything you mentioned, plus some.

I get just as mad at police helicopters and sirens as you do at film companies, getting woken 4 nights a week from the chopper lights, turning blades and the sirens is no fun. But it is the reality of the environment which I have chosen to live in.

I do believe the WRONG approach in dealing with the entities you hate so much is to throw your tantrums and stomp your feet. Which it sounds like you were doing when you wrote the above statements… please don’t pop a vein on my account. If you read all the blogs you would realize I am on your side.

yeah, you’re close enough to see downtown from where you live. you betcha that counts.

Sorry to put you on the defensive, Bert B - I’m not popping any veins or throwing temper tantrums. In fact, the last time I checked, there is no possible way to attach “tone” to something that is in writing. If you want to read into it, you’re more than welcome.

And I have to agree with Sarah P above. Living close to downtown and having to put up with sirens? Sorry - that doesn’t equate to living in the middle of what we go through. You have no idea what we go through.

None of us chose to live in a neighborhood where the agencies responsible for monitoring the film companies and preserving our rights under the Civil Code to reasonably “quiet enjoyment” (that’s a legal term) of our homes by enforcing the law - are the same agencies that are breaking the law.

I am going to repeat something here that I posted on angelenic.com regarding a discussion of a nightclub opening on Spring Street. The discussion entered around whether or not people living downtown should be expected to put up with excessive noise. My comment there is also appropriate here:

There is noise and then there is perfectly preventable noise pollution. I wonder how many of you have actually lived in other, dense cities, where these types of uses overlap. In Manhattan, Chicago, San Francisco, etc, the neighborhood’s concerns matter, and are strictly enforced. To me it is a totally suburban idea that downtown is and should be loud. That attitude comes from a lack of experience, not urban reality.

Bert B,

At officer’s discretion only applies to APPROVED activity on a permit. Fully closing the Second Street Tunnel to traffic from both directions requires a Board of Public Works action. As noted, the officer admitted they did not have a permit for a full closure.

Multiple that times 200 instances like this one a year and you get the picture as to why people Downtown are feed up with the arrogance of most location productions we encounter.

The entertainment industry has plenty of community relations work to do Downtown if it wants this area to be a sustainable production location.