boo boo on January 08, 2009, at 10:30AM – #1

This is the most ridiculous statement I have read about downtown Los Angeles!

"I knew I would find parents that felt the same way I do, that we deserve a school in return for the property tax that we contribute."

You deserve EXACTLY what you have, were you promised a brand new school for your kids if you purchased a loft? Didn't you realize there were no perfect schools before you moved? I think YOU should have done your HOMEWORK before asking for a new school to study in!

Susana Benavidez on January 08, 2009, at 12:04PM – #2

Boo Boo

Ridiculous is the name you hide behind.

Am I and other residents supposed to sit back and be complascent? I love Downtown and have always wanted to live here. I apologize if I don't just sit on my hands and not improve a neighborhood I choose to stay in for years to come.

I deserve what I fight for which is a good elementary school for the children that were in Downtown before me and the children of loft dwellers, tough luck if you don't agree.

David Kennedy on January 08, 2009, at 12:23PM – #3

I find boo's comments puzzling. Certainly, not helpful. I'm not familiar with Susana's family situation. However, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that spouses living downtown will get pregnant after moving here. I met my wife downtown and we had three children here. We weren't sitting around making cost-benefit analysis of having kids. We were in love.

Susana's observation that parents of young children will face a day of reckoning is correct. Where will our children go to school? There are plenty of schools downtown. But, the test scores are mediocre to poor at best. (Chinatown elementary was the best of the lot last time I looked.) This is certainly a reflection of the socio-economic status of most of the students in the area. The vast majority are children of immigrants.

Most of the new downtowners bring greater social aspirations for their children and sending them to a high-performing school is reasonable. As a tax-payer, Susana has every right to expect quality public education for her children. Her dilemma underscores the apartheid nature of public education in L.A. Basically, screw the poor kids. The influx of affluent downtowners merely underscores this reality.

boo's contention that these parents simply move out of the neighborhood doesn't seem to be basis for sound public policy. Frankly, it comes off as quite mean-spirited. But, the dilemma for parents is real.

I suspect boo's anti-child bigotry reflects his adolescent hipster-dipster life-style. (Believe me, this bigotry is real. The stories I can tell you.) I understand how the marketing of downtown as some manufactured hipster heaven has encouraged much of the residential influx to downtown. And I think in the aggregate this has been a good thing. However, I also think there are limits to public policy being driven by the marketing hype of real estate developers. Susana's dilemma merely illustrates this.

Hank Collins on January 08, 2009, at 01:33PM – #4

Boo is a boob and clearly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. However, it's probably fair to assume he's a tool. His argument is remarkably ignorant. It's analgous to someone arguing that people who are upset about air pollution, violence, or traffic should just pick up and leave Los Angeles and not try to do something to address an obvious problem. It's the simpleton's "if you don't like it, move somewhere else argument." Don't like America? Move to Canada!

People who make arguments like this like sense and sophistication. Apparently, Boo feels that parents should move around City like nomads in search of a school that provides a decent, quality education. Unfortunately, what people like him don't seems to understand is that most of those decent LAUSD schools are in areas where the typicaly homes is close to a million dollars (Los Feliz, the nice part of Mt. Washinton, etc). Boo, you're going to have to put in a lot of extra time at your barista gig to save up for that kind of a purchase...

Hard working parents who pay their fair shair of property and sales taxes should reasonably be able to assume that basic public services like fire, police, and school are provided in an equitable way... Even if Boob - I mean Boo disagrees.

bromike666 on January 08, 2009, at 04:27PM – #5

Dear Hank, David & Susana,

I completely agree with your assessment of Boo/Boob. It's a shame that you should have to live in such a crappy neighborhood along side such an epic tool. If I were you I'd pack up and leave immediately.

That'll show him!

Don't worry Mike on January 08, 2009, at 05:11PM – #6

We will make sure not to disrupt you at your warehouse in the industrial area.

Please don't let us offend your peace and quiet with our thoughts. Maybe you and Boo can move further East and complain about Downtown improving to someone else.

David Kennedy on January 08, 2009, at 05:29PM – #7

I don't think banishment or segregation are reasonable propositions. Certainly they are immature sentiments. However, both boo and bro are to be commended for their candor. Their comments denote them as irresponsible and marginal members of the community. It is not surprising they choose not identify themselves.

So be it. Hopefully, others can contribute thoughtful comments to help resolve a legitimate concern for downtown.

Joshua Cook on January 08, 2009, at 07:34PM – #8

I teach at a new high school located about two miles south of the historic core. We serve the Santee and Jefferson community. It is refreshing to hear your interest in the fight for quality public education, but please know that there is a rich history to this fight.

For one, it bares note that the roots of the term "South Central Los Angeles" lie in the fact that between Main and Alameda from Washington to Slauson was the only place in the city (aside from Watts) one could own property and be African-American. This is a community that is historically disenfranchised. This can be seen in the dearth of public education available to this area of the city. Jefferson and Santee are amongst the worst high school in the state if not the country.

If you are serious about the fight, I suggest that you connect with extant education advocates in the area. You might contact Gary De La Rosa with the Human Relations at City Hall. There are already exciting things happening in secondary education. PUC schools has a new school on 7th and Wilshire. Ánimo De La Hoya, which is currently housed in the World Trade Center was just named #53 of the top 100 high school in the nation by US News and World Report. Perhaps others know of progress in primary education.

As for skid row, this is a great video on some of the recent past: http://www.latimes.com/video/?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=2192635

bromike666 on January 09, 2009, at 07:12AM – #9

Please don't let us offend your peace and quiet with our thoughts. Maybe you and Boo can move further East and complain about Downtown improving to someone else

Ah yes, it's ok to complain about the state of downtown but not to complain about the future of downtown. Sorry kids, we all have different visions for downtown and mine does not include "clean & scrubbed." Seriously, I like downtown better when it's dirty, stinky and crappy. I came here for exactly what downtown was, not what it was going to be. I'll keep bitching about the changes as long as y'all keep wishing for change.

Anyways, I'm kinda over the whole thing and would rather have a few acres of land in the middle of nowhere.

Li on January 09, 2009, at 08:58AM – #10

Susana, you alluded to a point that really bothers me, which is that I don't just want my son to be well educated, I want all children downtown to have access to good and safe schools. It would be a shame if the burgeoning movement to improve schools downtown only applies to the loft dwellers and doesn't do anything to help the kids who are homeless or poor and go to sub-standard schools because they and their parents don't have the time, money or resources to advocate for something better.

This is a very personal issue for me because I went to public school in the Bronx and had to deal with violence, decrepit classrooms and the like. But I was also very fortunate to have teachers who truly cared and pushed me to achieve. Thanks to them, I was the first person in my family to attend college. I want other poor kids to have the educational opportunities I've had.

David Kennedy on January 09, 2009, at 11:22AM – #11

bro's point is actually well taken. Hopefully, this is a learning moment for him. Too often commenters here don't want to hear the different opinions of others. They find them 'offensive'. The end result is to ask -- nay, demand -- the 'offending' person and their opinion to 'go away'. Obviously, there are positions which are beyond the pale and outside legitimate discussion. However, I think this habit of wishing to banish those who disagree with your opinions should be discouraged.

As I've made clear, I don't agree with boo and bro's take on this issue. But, I certainly think they have every right to voice their opinion. They in turn need to realize others will critique their positions. My larger point is to encourage them to make their case in a more rational, civil and constructive manner. (How about using your real name?)

I actually understand bro's sentiment of rowing against the tide. Such is the melancholy of life. But, fussing and cursing like a petulant adolescent neither advances their position thoughtfully nor is it edifying to them personally. Sure, being the bombthrower can be momentarily gratifying. Ultimately, I'd argue, it doesn't lead to any kind of real happiness for them. It also degrades the level of discourse here. We can do better.

Kari on January 09, 2009, at 12:11PM – #12

My husband and I just moved downtown. I'm about to give birth to our first child, and I am so thankful to hear that other parents are working towards bringing a decent school to downtown LA. I too want my daughter to be raised in a diverse neighborhood, while still receiving a great education. Thanks for a great blog. I'd love to see more information about action steps I could take to help bring this from discussion to reality.

li on January 09, 2009, at 12:40PM – #13

Hi Kari,

Congratulations on the baby! There are two Yahoo groups set up for downtown:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dtlakids/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CityKidsLA/

There's a lot of overlap between the two groups and frankly, we should probably combine them...anyway, you should check them out. There are a lot of posts relating to schools, daycare, etc.

I also have a list of downtown parenting resources on my blog (look in the sidebar). Feel free to contact me through the blog if you have questions.

bromike666 on January 09, 2009, at 03:22PM – #14

(How about using your real name)

I've been on the internet as bromike666 since 1995 and will continue to do so until the day I die. My useless rants and boring personal information are a simple Google search away.

nanorich on January 10, 2009, at 09:05AM – #16

Maybe a good place to start would be to visit the local schools. There are nearby public schools, where hard working teachers toil will little support from the community...with a lack of textbooks and supplies...and where the stakeholders in the community are dealing with survival issues...and can't always contribute to the schools like nice respectable middle class people.

You want safe schools downtown? Then why should minority and immigrant students who live a couple of blocks away from you have to go to unsafe schools?

Or are loft dwellers with children expecting to send their children to schools for loft dwelling children only, rather the children who also reside in the area.

You might not see these kids, but they are your neighbors children and they deserve good schools as well.

By the way, the teachers and staff of the nearby elementary schools would welcome your support and volunteer efforts. You are aware that private schools expect you to give your time, as well as keep your checkbook open beyond tuition.

Run a google on the Downtown Los Angeles Public Schools. Many or reviewed and what people who send their kids there might surprise you.

nanorich on January 10, 2009, at 09:34AM – #17

Also, before you use your status as a property tax payer as an entitlement to having better schools than your neighbors who rent, please be aware that property taxes account for about 21% of the school budgets...and allotted on a statewide basis.

http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/articles/article.asp?title=Guide%20to%20California%20School%20Finance%20System

The reason we have public schools is because it was decided that it is in the interest of the greater community to have a well educated populace. That we all benefit from living with people who are educated well enough to do their jobs competently...and well as other things which are less tangible. Additionally, when you provide a good education to less advantaged people, they get good jobs, and contribute to the tax base, and we all benefit.

So it is in the interest of all of us, beyond our own personal senses of entitlement to have good schools, affordable healthcare, and safe streets.

The tax benefits of home ownership outweigh the property tax paid for most people, and when making the argument having good schools because someone granted you a mortgage can be considered a little shortsighted...

because the poor already pay taxes..as well..even they pay a higher percentage of nonprogressive taxes compared to those in middle and high incomes.

Richard Crane on January 10, 2009, at 11:56AM – #18

Here we go again. The Mommyfication of Downtown --- oh and NOW we care about the education of those poor kids on Skid Row because you bought a loft with a moat of urine that never gets properly bleached. (There is "affluence" living downtown? Umm... Nick Cage?)

Sorry, but your sympathy for the little poor kids is too little, too late., as it only exposes how you made the move downtown without thinking about the school scene. Basically, you don't want your middle-class kids to catch something from the immigrants. There IS always Brentwood.... Get involved with existing downtown schools and, if you really care about improving education, then sit on their boards and talk about how you own and pay property tax and how Amber and Ashley and her poor friends deserve better. Maybe it will work. Otherwise is a looooong shortbus ride to Crossroads.

The sour smell of Kathryn Mease's memoir, "My NewFamily's Brave Brush With Death on Apocalypse Boulevard" continues to linger, representative of a new downtowner who really wants to make downtown Pasadena and fast. No thank you. There is already a Pasadena. Big buildings. FanTAStic schools. Trader Joes and Target. It's all there, folks. Suck it up. Spend it. LiveWorkPlay it.

You claim you want your kids to experience diversity, but you really don't. It's more like you want them to experience "diversity - lite."

Karin Liljegren on January 10, 2009, at 01:04PM – #19

I think Susana's blog is simply stating that we need to get some great schools downtown - for ALL downtown kids. Why are people so critical?

It's pretty obvious that all of the nay sayers and criticizers on this post do not have kids. Here is something that is impossible for someone without kids to understand - once you have a kid, you have a complete world view adjustment. Your life's priority becomes to protect, nuture and help guide this new human. It is all encompassing. I'm not trying to be a self righteous person for having a kid, I'm simply stating your life view shifts when you have a kid - FACT.

I moved to 6th & Main 18 months ago, I have a 6 year old boy. I knew downtown VERY well and knew exactly what I was moving into. We both love it here.

I constantly work on and struggle with my desire to expose him to ALL aspects of downtown. But as a parent, there is that "protection" thing, that if someone ever hurt your kid you would kill them with rage or you would sacrifice all you have to give them the best education. We walk and scooter around everywhere. I worry the most about buses and cars running him over, but there is the occasional dude with really really bad energy that scares me. For the most part, I find being on the edge of skid row perfectly wonderful. He knows all the guys that sit on the street near Nickel - they love to cheer him on when he scooters by and he is learning how to shop for bargains in the toy district. He has no place to run or go to school. I knew that when I moved here, but doesn't mean I shouldn't try to improve to city to get those things.

I spend a fortune sending my son to a pricey private school in K-town. It is extremely diverse, he is the only white kid in his class. But, it is a well educated, moderate to high income group. I LOVE this school, but my choice if I had it would be a local school mixed with all sorts of ethnicity AND income levels AND an amazing and safe academic school. I am not too optimistic of this option ever occurring, but I'm willing to fight for it.

Margaret on January 10, 2009, at 01:46PM – #20

It's only a matter of time before The Concerned Parents Brigade of DTLA moves to relocate the 100 or so registered sex offenders who live on 5th Street b/w Los Angeles and Olive.

Having kids is a choice. Having kids downtown is a choice. Don't feel a lot of sympathy for people who elect to have / raise children downtown. I personally don't want to live in a stroller-choked neighborhood. That's one of the joys of being downtown -- a lack of toddlers, playgrounds, strollers, kids clothing stores, kids meal menus -- in other words, what a neighborhood like Silver Lake has become in a matter of years.

I'm not anti-child, either, as I do enjoy kids. But there are plenty of kid-oriented neighborhoods, with good public and private schools, throughout Los Angeles. But when a neighborhood gets too many toddlers with parents who live to protect said toddlers, a neighborhood starts policing anything and everything that is anti-child: noise, bars, sex, traffic, public space use. Look at the arguments surrounding what should be done with Pershing Square. "Let's put in a playground!"

Margaret on January 10, 2009, at 01:58PM – #21

Prime example: Friends lived in the Bartlett Building. Not that long ago, one of the ground floor retail shops sold adult-related DVDs in the back of the dvd / video game shop. It wasn't long before the building got all "that's inappropriate -- kids live in this building" and the building forced the vendor out. See how this child-oriented attitude spreads? What about adult choice?

nanorich on January 10, 2009, at 07:51PM – #22

Dear Richard,

re: The sour smell of Kathryn Mease's memoir, "My NewFamily's Brave Brush With Death on Apocalypse Boulevard" continues to linger, representative of a new downtowner who really wants to make downtown Pasadena and fast. No thank you. There is already a Pasadena. Big buildings. FanTAStic schools. Trader Joes and Target. It's all there, folks. Suck it up. Spend it. LiveWorkPlay it.

When I read that piece in Downtown LA News, I was appalled. Anyone with any awareness of their surroundings who takes their kid for a stroll down Broadway might want to pay attention. It isn't as if it is any big shock that schizophrenics walk that street.

But holy cow, as a parent, when I was out with my son when he was a baby, I always knew where I was, and was alert to potential trouble. I would have seen the offending street person coming and done a segue out of the path of that person.....BECAUSE that is what alert and aware parents do. You scan your environment, and avoid crazies. It isn't as if there all that much good shopping on Broadway to divert your attention. Yikes.

I moved to Downtown 12 years ago to get away from the Valley...

but it seems these days there are people who want to move the Valley mindset down here.

Well, good luck. But if you want to raise kids down here, you might be the ones who need to make the adjustments.

Li on January 10, 2009, at 08:37PM – #23

You know, it doesn't matter whether people like, approve of or are sympathetic to families downtown. The kids are here, they're not going away, and their parents are going to advocate for them.

To the other parents reading this, just ignore the haters. The biggest benefit of reading this column is to connect with other families and to have a forum for discussing issues that matter to us. The rest is just noise.

nanorich on January 10, 2009, at 10:30PM – #25

As I said, having actually sent a child thru LAUSD, as well the UC system, I sure didn't start off with a huge sense of entitlement and chip on my shoulder when it came to educating my son.

You want your kids to go good schools?

Work to improve the neighborhood schools....or get your kids in magnet schools.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that you are going to get a school system already suffering from underfunding, in a city in a huge financial crisis to drop everything to feed the needs of people who think they deserve better than than neighbors, or those fund for LAUSD are your personal educational bank account.

bromike666 on January 12, 2009, at 06:38AM – #26

Margaret +1

Margaret +1 on January 12, 2009, at 04:35PM – #27

back at ya, bromike666

Jonathan on January 12, 2009, at 10:02PM – #28

All i have to say, as a non-parent, and a 2-year downtowner, is that there is no good reason to not have decent public schooling. Of course suburban schools are going to be higher-ranked among magazines and polls, but honestly people... Does the school make the child smart? Does the school make the child successful...?

In my humble opinion, NO. A childs education is completely dependent on the parents dedication to their childs schoolwork. The time they put in with them after school working on homework, the advice, the influence, the encouragement, the attitude, etc etc.
I agree with you Susan, downtown should have better FUNDED schools with nicer FACILITIES...but education of our children is based on the child's nurturing family...not by how new the textbooks are.

Dtownla on January 13, 2009, at 01:31PM – #29

I always thought the point of Downtown was diversity. I love seeing kids in the neighborhood. What better metaphor for the rebirth of the Downtown area?

In terms of the porn shop in the Bartlett that Margaret seems to remember fondly, the Bartlett is a condo association with rules and regulations. The rules clearly state that there should be no adult businesses operated on the premises. Once the owner was apprised of the rule, he chose to lease to a different business.

Relax folks, you aren't going to lose your street cred because Downtown becomes less like some 1970s Scorcese version of Manhattan. The homeless will not be abandoned because the homed want to improve their neighborhood.

If anything, living Downtown makes the homeless much less of an abstraction and more of an urgent reality. Those who choose to stay and raise families are doing more for the homeless than those who choose to go to the suburbs and ignore the problem altogether.

Good luck with your quest Susanna. I think its great that pioneers like yourself are considering raising your children here. I hope you find lots of other like minds.