A Nonny Mouse on February 13, 2009, at 03:24PM – #2

"the waiter claimed it was he who had told us to leave and that it is standard protocol to ask your patrons to leave when they are done."

This has always been the case, its a face paced diner and not a place to sit around and chat after. I love the nickel and eat there at least twice a week, and realize that that is the setup. If you want to hang out and chat after a meal, go to Pete's.

A Nonny Mouse on February 13, 2009, at 04:00PM – #4

Maybe it's for the best if you don't eat at restaurants where you don't understand the flow of things.

Purple Haze on February 13, 2009, at 06:05PM – #5

That's right, Nonny Mouse. This is Manhattan after all and the bottom line rides supreme.

We must accommodate ourselves, when three people wait in line on Main Street and Mayor Lump On A Log comports himself in the next booth.

Hmmm... was it Paris Hilton who was waiting in line?

lollie Shan on February 14, 2009, at 08:56AM – #6

Hi Susana,

I just keep wondering why bloggers post complaints instead of speaking to the owners of the business. Back in the day before bloggers, and facebook, etc..What would you have done? called and complained, or written a letter. Now it's react, and hit the send button. So your not going to the Nickel anymore, okay got it. Why is that worthy of a story? How about that new California budget, how will it affect Downtown in terms of services? How about those new taxes all of us will be paying? You had a bad day; things didn't go your way at the Nickel. Do you need to bash them?

Marie Sanchez on February 14, 2009, at 10:23AM – #7

People go to restaurants for service and a pleasant experience, not factory-like efficiency. We all want to be treated with respect. If owners are intent on being a food factory, they should drop their prices and change their name to McDonald's or Denny's. I agree with Susana. If her story is correct, Nickel is in the wrong and the management clearly has no knowledge of common courtesy and manners. Restaurant owners should know better. Restaraunts succeed when the make customers feel good about their experience and provide quality food. Hopefully Nickel won't ruin their long terms changes for success by focusing on a short term quick buck.

Restaurantaholic on February 14, 2009, at 11:41AM – #8

I agree with you, Susanna. When I go out to eat (which is every day since I hate cooking and washing dishes) I am hoping for a pleasant experience. I don't appreciate rude service either.

I'm glad you wrote this story. I've not heard good things about the Nickel Diner, and now I'm really not enthused about eating there. @lollie shan, M did call and complain. That was written clearly in the article.

This is not the New York Times, so if you want to put a personal slant on things and talk about your experiences in Downtown, go for it! Your article sure as hell beats that Oliver whatever column.

The Dude on February 14, 2009, at 03:41PM – #9

Thanks for the heads up on this place! Not going there, now. I'm honestly surprised you complied, what with not actually being finished with your meal. Or since you were about to pay, did you literally comply and just walk out since they clearly wanted you out?

I would pursue contacting the other co-owner, not Trattner. The other co-owner may be very interested to hear about this experience, and if this is one of your favorite places to eat, and you do regularly eat there, you might want to include this information to show them what they will be losing from your lack of patronage annually--if you actually eat there frequently enough.

Just stay very calm, polite, but firm. And don't be afraid to bluff if you have to--sometimes that's all it takes to resolve a customer satisfaction situation to your advantage.

And second Restaurantaholic : this column is great, and both entertaining and informative, a very sharp contrast to the Oliver: Narcissist on the Loose saga unfolding.

Jon on February 16, 2009, at 04:03PM – #11

Thanks for the heads up re "the flow of things" at Nickel Diner. I'll be sure to avoid it whenever I want anything other than a fast-food experience.

Veronica on February 18, 2009, at 04:06PM – #13

I personally love the Nickel and have always had pleasant experiences there. I do note that sometimes Ms. Trattner has a brash demeanor, but I always found it to be part of the charm. My real concern about this has more to do with their response to your complaints. It doesn't serve a restaurant well to alienate their customers, or to belittle their concerns. When your friend called, they should have apologized. They designed the Nickel to be an "experience" and if they aren't willing to allow people to enjoy a relaxed meal, it'll eventually show up in the bottom line.

notafoodcritic on February 19, 2009, at 09:53AM – #14

Susana,

I waited 20 minutes and more for a table at The Nickel. I have also watched several times as people, patently ignoring those waiting for seats, linger as they drink their $2 cup of coffee. It is a diner Susana, not a hour+ long leisurely dinner place. Diner rules are the same in Manhattan, Chicago, and Los Angeles as well as every other city I have been. Eat, enjoy, and move on. Sorry your ego was bruised by Ms. Trattner. But I am sure the people waiting for your table were happy to be seated, order, and eat. And then get on with their lives.

A Nonny Mouse on February 19, 2009, at 04:20PM – #15

Well said Notafoodcritic :)

Mac on February 21, 2009, at 11:20AM – #16

I have been in the service industry for 16 years and NEVER has it been acceptable to ask someone to leave unless they are being disruptive. This is true in both fine dining and fast paced eating out. I'm sorry you were treated that way. Its especially painful to hear that this happened at the Nickel which is a place I love. Its true that no matter where you are eating you are paying in part for an experience. You should be able to enjoy that experience for however long you want. If people don't want to wait in line, they can go down the street to Petes or Banquet or head over to Urth or any number of nearby places. Next time call Gram and Papa's. They will deliver you breakfast, lunch, or dinner if you don't want to leave the house and the owners are good people who want your to enjoy yourself.

Dennis on February 21, 2009, at 04:38PM – #17

Susana, I'm not sure if you are trying to impress us with your connections to local political celebs, or if you are trying to review The Nickel. I reread your article twice, and I have to say that your problem is that you are hanging out at a DINER that does not represent your uppity westside attitude (regardless of where you live, your are obviously infected with it).

The Nickel is the best thing that has happened in our neighborhood because it caters to many of us who are working artists, writers and creative people that are not looking for the snobbery of Patina, etc - when instead, we simply want to get a good meal at a good price, and know that Monica and Kristen are there to make us feel loved through their food. We are NOT there to be seen or to rub elbows with who you feel are important people.

There is a line out the door. Always. Period. While you were busy bruising your elbows with "Judge Hahn", did you have the courtesy to look up and see how many people were waiting? Is the fact that you are with a "somebody", lingering at a table that should be turned over to diners that have been waiting for 20 or 30 minutes, a justifiable reason for your behavior? Don't blame the staff - try looking at yourself.

If you want to eat with the beautuful people - you are more than welcome to go hang out with the fabulous beautiful people in West Hollywood or Brentwood - there are plenty of restaurants that will cater to your sense of entitlement.

Meanwhile, we locals will remain dedicated to our community, and have the sense to understand that there are other people in the world besides ourselves.

Lu on February 22, 2009, at 08:38AM – #18

Suzanna, the confusion you had was your conscience telling you to get over your ego and your pride, and to not trash the reputation of a local woman who was brave enough to open a quality restaurant with a great vibe in a difficult part of downtown. Im sorry that you listened to your pride instead, and decided to tell the world of this unfortunate incident on this respected local blog because your feelings were hurt. You have now tarnished the reputation of a great local venture. Marie, Restaurantaholic, "Dude", and I'm sure many others are now turned off by this restaurant. Good job.

Of course it was not nice, but cmon - if there are throngs of people waiting to pay to eat, and you have already been there an hour, then have some respect for a local business venture that is trying to make it in these difficult times. Move on with your day. Get over that you were next to a local celebrity.

The owners always been more than accomodating to me, a stranger, and all that I have been there with. They greet you immediately once you enter, even if there are already several waiting, and give you a reasonable estimate about the expected wait time. They make excellent food, always have good service, and often offer free things.

I agree that it may have been difficult to be reminded that others have been waiting for your table, and they need to seat other patrons too, but you really need to get over it and just let it go. Look at the bigger picture, not your bruised ego please. I think one can reasonably expect to linger at a restaurant for hours if they are dead, but if they are packed, with people waiting, one should be conscious of that fact, respectful of the others waiting, and leave within a reasonable amount of time.

Restaurants F**k Up on February 22, 2009, at 10:41AM – #19

They do. Kristen fucked up.

The Nickel is lucky to have received a rush of good press in a fairly short amount of time and most of the good press is deserved. However, having worked in food / bar service for years, I chalk this instance up as a restauranteur fucking up.

As Susana points out, the plates hadn't been cleared and the waiter had refilled their coffee mugs. In other words, THEY WERE STILL DINING and when a waiter refills coffee mugs, that's an invitation to drink the coffee.

What Kristen should have done is politely explained that there was a line of people waiting and offered, say, a voucher for desserts (or desserts to go) if it was okay for them to vacate their table. It's still asking people to leave (which is lame anyway and why it's never done in France, for example, even if a restaurant is closing), but then Kristen could have accommodated new people AND not pissed off / humiliated Susana and M. Easy.

I love downtown LA blogs, especially reading posters like Dennis, et al. They reveal how gross downtown is becoming and fast, with this bizarre downtown vs. westside curse. Ha! A trip to Venice yesterday made me realize, oh I get it: the new downtown is fast becoming ridiculous due to jealously and impatience with new lofters realizing how tiny and slow-to-change when it appears that it's changing quickly.

Downtown was so much more palatable before it became this mission of new-Frontierism.

Susana, I only regret that you didn't look Kristen in the eye and explain, "we will leave when we're finished eating, thank you," and continue your conversation.

Jasmijn on February 23, 2009, at 08:47AM – #20

They refilled your coffee cups, and then asked you to leave?

OK, I understand the rush in a diner and the need to accommodate those waiting to eat, but this could have been handled better. I agree that the problem w/ the restaurant's behavior is only partly the "OK you have to leave now" rush: it's also the follow up response. And -- fellow readers -- let's not start getting vicious with personal attacks at someone talking about an unhappy experience.

I haven't eaten at the Nickel yet but it's been on my list of "downtown places to check out." Now that I'd be eating while looking over my shoulder, I'm moving it much lower on the list. From everyone's comments, it sounds like they don't need my patronage anyway and are doing just fine without it.

Dennis on February 23, 2009, at 12:33PM – #21

I went in on Sunday and had breakfast with friends, and the service was impeccable, Kristen and Monica greeted us at the door, and I left with a take-out box of my leftovers.

Not one person was asked to leave - but then again, we were watching the door and as soon as we were done, we left so that others that were waiting could be seated.

My grandmother always said there are three sides to every story - the two people in disagreement each have a story, and the third story is the truth.

I'm sorry, but with the effort that Susana made to tell her story - primarily how she was embarrassed because she was in the presence of Hahn (someone she thinks is a celeb) - I don't think we are hearing the accurate truth. And we probably never will.

All I know is that yesterday - Sunday - it was packed, the service was impeccable, people were happy, and the food was as fantastic as always.

The reason I am jumping so hard on this is for the continual guise of "bloggers" using their outlet as "journalists". Frankly, I have to laugh at this story of Susana's because if this was New York, some blue-haired Magda who had worked at the diner for 50 years would have been telling Susana to, "pack up because she's got a line of people waiting for the table, and she couldn't give a hoot who ex-mayor Hahn was."

notafoodcritic on February 24, 2009, at 09:45AM – #22

Love ya, Dennis!! Exactly what would have happened in NYC.

Li on February 24, 2009, at 11:40AM – #23

As someone who grew up in New York and lived there for nearly 40 years, I can say that this is not acceptable behavior from a restaurant owner, period. It is not standard operating procedure to ask customers to leave even in one of the old greasy spoon Greek diners. I'm a fan of the Nickel and eat there often, but as was said above, this was a f*ck up. It happens.

Also, those of you accusing Susana of having a west side bias should know that she grew up in Boyle Heights. It's really annoying when people toss around that go-back-to-the-west-side crap. You can criticize things downtown without being a westsider or a suburbanite.

Add to the list on February 24, 2009, at 11:44AM – #24

of lame comparisons to another city.

Bringing up NYC is not only unoriginal, it's critical laziness.

Why NYC 2 on February 24, 2009, at 12:24PM – #25

I've been wondering, too: why do so many people think that just because something's done in NYC, that means it's OK to do that here? Or anywhere?

Greg on February 24, 2009, at 11:28PM – #26

Either leave and let it go, or say "eat me" and "I'm not finished". M should probably get his blood pressure checked.

A Nonny Mouse on February 28, 2009, at 12:35AM – #27

mmm... I'm going tomorrow to have a delicious meal and leave in a timely manner. Delicious :)

Jaason on February 28, 2009, at 04:07PM – #28

If the goal is to get in, eat your food, and get out, why not cut out the tables and just make it a to-go place? If I am going out to eat I want to be able to relax and enjoy myself, not feel rushed by other diners. Thanks for the heads up Suzana.

Urban Trojan on February 28, 2009, at 09:19PM – #29

I sorta wonder if, eighteen or so months hence, issues such as these will be so distant and irrelevant.

Who knows? The vacancies by then could be sky high. The yupsters could be way-packed, living just as tight together as immigrants in Westlake. Or the whole scene could be lots more empty and The Row expanded, reclaiming it's former domain.

Urban Trojan on March 01, 2009, at 08:40AM – #30

On second thought (courtesy of Mr. Westwater's blog):

Downtown Los Angeles Predicted To Be Among First Parts Of Nation To Recover From Recession! According to WWW.GlobeSt.Com, Jack Kyser predicts Downtown Los Angeles will be one of the first areas of the nation to come out of the current business downturn.

And with the many new businesses moving to Historic Downtown along Main and Spring - and the number of existing businesses that are expanding - HIstoric Downtown is already leads the rest of Downtown.

For both last year and this year, we will have far more residents moving to the area - and far fewer vacant retail and restaurant spaces.

Forecast Sees Faster Downtown Recovery By Bob Howard

LOS ANGELES-Downtown L.A. could start its recovery from the recession sooner than other parts of the county, the state and the nation, thanks to its transportation links, the new L.A. Convention Center hotel and its stable commercial real estate markets. That is the gist of a forecast by Jack Kyser, founding economist for the Kyser Center for Economic Research at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp., which recently presented a regional forecast as well.

Kyser, who presented his Downtown outlook recently at the Central City Association’s Ninth Annual Downtown Los Angeles Economic Forecast, tells GlobeSt.com that Downtown is uniquely positioned to come out of the downturn for a number of reasons. For one, upcoming events like the opening of the Gold Line rail extension from Union Station into East L.A. and the opening early next year of the Los Angeles Convention Center hotel will bring more people to and from the city.

Kyser estimates that the number of room nights Downtown will climb to 400,000 in 2010 from 245,000 in 2009 with the opening of the Marriott Marquis and the Ritz Carlton, which will make Downtown more competitive for major business shows and conferences. The hotels will attract business visitors as well as their families, Kyser notes. With the Metrorail connections available from Downtown, "There are a lot of things for those family members to see and do when they come to Los Angeles," Kyser explains, such as catching a train to Universal Studios or taking the Blue Line to Long Beach to the Aquarium of the Pacific or cruises to Catalina. In addition, the Downtown freeway system provides access to Los Angeles International Airport, Bob Hope Airport in Burbank and other destinations.

Kyser cites the 1.1% vacancy rate in the Central L.A. industrial market and the county's overall 2.2% industrial vacancy as evidence of its strength. He points out that the office market, although it has weakened with office markets around the country, has not been hit as hard as many others. Downtown didn't have the exposure to the subprime lenders that caused such havoc in the Orange County office market, nor did it depend on the financial companies like those on the Westside of L.A., he explains. With office tenants now keeping an even keener eye on rents, the class A office rates offered in Downtown are attractive when compared to other areas of L.A. county including Hollywood, the West Side and Santa Monica, Kyser points out.

Although the recession will continue throughout 2009, Downtown will fare well in that its residential and worker demographics supporting Downtown businesses. The area currently has 39,000 residents with an average household income of $100,000 or more per year. Approximately 440,000 people also work in Downtown.

Commenting on Kyser's forecast, Carol Schatz, president and CEO of the Central City Association, says that the factors he outlines show that Downtown L.A. is "creating a strong and diverse economy." The Downtown renaissance is creating jobs and business opportunities as well as new housing, entertainment venues and options for shopping and dining, she adds.

Kyser expects to see a reversal of the downsizing that some law firms have undergone because of the slowing in mergers and acquisitions. The new business that will be generated by workouts, bankruptcies and the like should mean at least stability if not growth in the legal sector, which has long been a key office tenant base in Downtown.

Although his outlook for Downtown's recovery overall is positive, Kyser says that the road to recovery will include "some potholes along the way." He notes that many observers are concerned about the flood of residential product that has come on the market. A host of condominium projects have come on the market and found that there were not enough buyers, so some have been converted to apartments, he explains, and some projects--both condos and apartments--are still under construction.

"The concern is whether there will be enough demand over the next year or two," Kyser says of the Downtown housing market. A large part of the concern has to do with condos that came onto the market that are too expensive for most of the likely buyers Downtown. As Kyser explains, the main drivers of the Downtown housing market are "younger people who like a gritty environment and empty nesters who want the convenience," and both of those groups are usually looking for more moderately priced units.

Purple Haze on March 02, 2009, at 07:48AM – #31

But then there is this - quote/unquote - an e-mail received on Sunday, March 1st:

Buffett Accepts Blame and Faults Others

The renowned investor Warren E. Buffett chided himself and the business world at large in his annual letter to shareholders of his holding company on Saturday as he sifted through the wreckage of his worst year in four decades.

Marc’s Notes: As indicated in last Novembers Update when Warren Buffet told the world it was time to buy stocks I indicated he was wrong and would get his head handed to him. (SEE NOV UPDATE).

Turns out the Oracle of Omaha got his head handed to him and those investors that followed his lead and not ours also suffered a decapitation of their funds.

Even savvy investors can make mistakes, myself included. (although I like to think I make very few !).

There will be news on Monday of AIG posting another HUGE loss and the government will give them more billions. Do you ever think this money give away will stop? This really is incredible don’t you think? The billions are flying out almost daily, yet these amounts would have been unheard of a few years back. I don’t think the average American realizes that even a few million in government money going to a private enterprise is normally VERY RARE, yet now we are so complacent, your government gives away literally TRILLIONS and we still sit around Starbucks sipping our coffee like nothing is happening. From an economist’s point of view, I am seeing something akin to God himself landing on earth. I mean, really, this is way over the line. I will say it again. “It wont be enough”. It wont work, it never could. Issuing money is not creating wealth. It is just creating more debt. ( M(blank) - get your checkbook ready!) Like I said, I don’t lose economic bets but once in a decade.

This week should be a market mover due to the simple fact last week wasn’t. (much anyway).

I suspect the Warren Buffet posting today and the AIG news on Monday will start the week off negative and the 6000’s may be in play at least early in the day. If we “nest” there a few days, a new precedent will be set. If I was a betting man, I suspect the 6000’s will be tested this week.

The interesting thing this week will be news items. Who knows what will surface, but other then the Government spending more money, it wont be good. Think of it this way. With no one buying anything or spending anything, and consumption all but dried up, the US Government will substitute its spending for us.

Unfortunately, Uncle Sam gets its money from you and me, and is a very bad spender. It makes horrible deals, wastes money, skims some, losses some, and is not a good shopper, so its money will be the most wasted of all. And at a time when money is in short supply. This is why we can be sure what they are doing will exasperate an already bad problem.

My dear listeners and friends.

What we are seeing here are draconian measures. The situation is dire. We are playing with fire. I cannot say with certainty what will happen but truthfully I fear the worst. This is why I am diversifying my family’s money all over the place.

Overseas, in gold, in silver, in contrary stocks, in foreign currencies. I really don’t know what will be safe, but I know what is coming won’t be pretty and could, I repeat, COULD be downright devastating. I urge you to prepare for the worst, (yet hope and pray for the best).

If you STILL are sitting in what your “advisor” put you in like a basket full of US stocks or funds, PLEASE at least consider making some of the moves we have been talking about here on Money Matters and get some money SAFE.

I don’t want anyone who has access to this information to say “I should have done something”. Please, you don’t realize how precarious the situation is.

It MAY turn out fine in a few years, and I hope it will be, but we could be looking at something here many are not prepared for. The good news in all of this is that there is still time to prepare and hedge your assets. Please review some of the recommendations made here over that past years and a make at least some moves. If anything, at least get some physical gold and silver and get some money hedged. (Gold buyers- see the end of this update if you don’t know where to get coins or bars).

Remember, listen to those who were right and dump those advisors who were wrong. Don’t stick with the usually mantra of buy and hold! The advisors who told you to buy and hold are nothing more the parrots reiterating what they heard on CNBC. They are not thinkers, they are followers. There is no talent or thinking there. If your advisor has lead you down road of losses and offers nothing but “hang in there” or buy some “other” mutual fund or stock, make the change and do it now.

I know, I know…..You are thinking you’re already down too far to sell?

Think again. Like I keep saying, you WILL SELL, when you are down 70 to 80% , you WILL SELL. This is historically when even the staunchest of “buy and hold” investors sell. When everyone else is selling.
And that’s when it will be time to start BUYING strangely enough.