Been There on April 27, 2009, at 12:02AM – #3

Ron and Rich have been hysterically ripping into Fiesta Broadway for years. They've been itching for a fight. It looks like they got one.

Greg Kr on April 27, 2009, at 05:22AM – #4

seek n youll find.

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 09:48AM – #5

Here's just a little sample of Ron's newdowntown rants against Fiesta Broadway. This one is from May 3, 2008, although his tirades can be traced back years further.

"And..Do we have no rights for a safe environment...How would you like it if someone put a chain link fence across your door, leaving you were trapped inside???? What if there was a fire...Where would that leave you...Why do you think we don't have the right to speak out for our RIGHTS???? And you were right about some parents not teaching their children about being an ass, because your parents did a fine job of it, just look at your postings.... In France you have to speak French, when your talking to a condescending a~~, you have to speak in a language which they understand...guess it worked.."

Now if he took this tone and approach and applied it to the problem on Sunday, then one can see where additional problems might spout up. It's a shame people were injured, but as Greg wrote, "see n you'll find."

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 10:10AM – #7

Jim, go ahead and complain. Just don't scream, ask them if they understand English, threaten them and "shout it from the rooftops." Just be firm but polite and professional and you should be able to reap what you sow.

Tita80 on April 27, 2009, at 10:25AM – #8

I was there...saw the whole thing from beginning to end..All I can say is wow, what a psychotic pair! These two need to be in stray jackets...how do you punch a woman in the head then take her down to the floor by her ponytail and wrap your legs around body to restrain her! These two need to be behind bars...He claims to be the victim, PLEASE! as Greg wrote, " seek and you shall find". There were many that witnessed, ALL WILL COME TO LIGHT.

Tim on April 27, 2009, at 10:33AM – #9

Just stunned at the responses here. Instead of outrage at the use of violence, you people somehow find justification. The attitudes here -- "seek and ye shall find" -- have been used to condone every injustice from rape (look at how she dressed) to wife beating (I'd be mad if my wife talked to me like that) to lynching (he whistled at that white woman).

Ron has every right to complain about the alley being blocked without a permit. And he can scream and shout as much as he likes. That is his right. But his actions in no way justify ("seek and ye shall find") someone attacking him and putting him in the hospital.

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 12:25PM – #11

Caryn Ho, your few good points all fizzle down to this:

" I walked up and down the whole event and I think I was the only person there who spoke the language of our city - ENGLISH. Everything was written in Spanish and everyone at the booths, etc. were speaking in Spanish. I thought I had crossed the border."

Oh, what a horrible experience that must have been. Yes, it's pretty nasty being around those Spanish speakers, huh? Thank god for you that today you're back on the right side of your border!

David Kennedy on April 27, 2009, at 12:35PM – #12

Eric, this blog entry would be more useful if it contained actual details of what happened. You merely refer to an altercation which ended in the two parties needing medical attention. I'm sure you're trying to be fair here. But, the effect is really to be cryptic. Unfortunately, this has lead to plenty of speculation here, which further confuses the issue. I also understand what happened may not be clear at this time. However, when such details become available, please post them so people can respond in an informed way.

Thanks.

Jaason on April 27, 2009, at 12:57PM – #14

Been there~

Sorry, but I fail to see any anti-Mexican sentiment in Caryn's remarks.

Her argument is one of inclusiveness: why have a minority (non-American) public cultural event where you have to speak the language of the culture to be included? How does this help non Spanish speakers become more acquainted with Mexican culture?

You seem more interested in calling her a racist rather than engaging her on the issue.

boycott on April 27, 2009, at 01:07PM – #15

I could not AGREE more with Caryn Ho. This event is an horrible racist attempt at corporations to put sub standard "free" samples in the hands of Latino's to build "brand awareness" There is no cultural or festive experience. PLUS the workers who were setting up by throwing down pipes on Broadway at 1 a.m and then laughing at those who came outside to complain is just an example of hollow and callous the whole event is. I am personally boycotting every company that was there , and throwing my Dewalt power drill out the window since it work like a piece of crap. Perhaps I might hit a pipe throwing worker and see how funny he would find that.

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 01:16PM – #17

.....er, Jaason, have you ever walked down Broadway during the day? What language did you hear spoken? You have walked down Broadway, right? I wonder if Sunday's visit was Caryn's first venture to Broadway.

I didn't call Caryn a racist. I simply pointed out that she was uncomfortable not being around "the language of our city-ENGLISH". Her statement "I thought I had crossed the border" also seems--at best-- insensitive and intolerant.

There was English being spoken on Broadway during the Fiesta, but there just wasn't enough to satisfy Caryn. Her few good points are paved over by her intolerance. You can call it racist if you want, Jaason. I won't disagree with you.

Ryan Price on April 27, 2009, at 01:21PM – #18

But Rich! There wasn't even any guacamole for me to eat! How can you call it a 'fiesta' without guacamole!?

I'm kidding, btw.

ray on April 27, 2009, at 01:24PM – #19

Los Angeles is a Spanish word. It is short for the original name of the city which was El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles. Today Los Angeles is a global metropolis with communities whose populations speak English as a second language. However, one should not be surprised to find the majority Angelinos speaking the language of city's origin.

Fiesta Broadway is a major marketing event that books hotels with hundreds of out of town marketers to connect with local consumers. This year clean up was performed in part by local homeless who, with the help of a non-profit organization, were able to earn wages for the day.

Fiesta Broadway has been the city's official launch of all Cinco de Mayo celebrations for the past 20 years.

Molly Birckhead on April 27, 2009, at 01:56PM – #20

I'm with Caryn on this one. It's a bummer that Mexicans can't be more "Mexican". More salsa dancing please!!!!

David Kennedy on April 27, 2009, at 02:43PM – #21

Rich's points are well taken. Caryn's problem is she doesn't understand the event is not geared to people like her with more rarified and cultured tastes. There is nothing wrong with her tastes. However, they are at odds with the purposes of Fiesta Broadway. She's a tad arrogant to think the world ought to cater to her. There are a half a million other people who attended and millions more who watched performances on TV who couldn't care less.

I, also, note that she (nor anyone else here) seemed to be aware of any of the performers. Wished I'd be able to see Paquita or Graciela Beltran.

Oscar on April 27, 2009, at 03:07PM – #22

Hahaha, all the commemts are funny, sad, and true.

First off, let me start buy saying I AM "MEXICAN" born and raised and living here for 7 years.

The way this event works is they bring some musicians that would appeal the spanish speaking audiences and let people attend for free. Who pays for it? Corporate sponsors. What do they get out of it publicity.

I agree, "AT&T Fiesta Broadway" should be located somewhere else, such as a park, the convention center or somewhere between Alameda and the river. BTW, there is a similar event that takes place in the streets in fron of the "cornfield" which I think would make the perfect space for this "Fiesta".

I don't think it's fair to cause such trouble (and I'm NOT being sarcastic) to the local residents of this community, specially as the community grows. I experienced firsthand the rudeness of the event organizers as I was trying to get to my parking lot. If they are going to be using our community shouldn't they at least give us some respect?

Although I do agree that ALL federal literature and services should be available in English only to promote the learning of the language among immigrants I don't think this event should be in English at all, since is paid for by corporate sponsors trying to reach the spanish speaking market (I know I've said it already but just in case it wasn't clear).

I'm sorry Caryn Ho if the spanish inconvenince you but unfortunately you were not invited, only because it happened in your neighborhood you dind't HAVE TO go. If there was a rocket propulssion meeting in the lobby of my building and I could go if I wanted to although I was not invited I wouldn't complain after because I didn't understand the technical terms or didn't get it at all. It was my decission to show up in the first place, just because it happened in my lobby doesn't mean I had to be there.

It was not salsa, it was cumbia, or a newer sound called "sonidero".

However I don't think that Cumbia or Salsa are very representative from mexico, I think that would be more quebradita or nortenio.

And yes, there was no guacamole anywhere... I guess because avocados are expensive.

Now personally what do I think of it? I think it su**! Although I liked the overpriced torta I ate, none of the musicians appealed to me, the sponsors make the poor mexican people make huge long lines for a "reward" that it's worthless. However for those very poor people who can barely afford to go to the movies and event like this is a great opportunity for recreation and even better get a t-shirt, for free, even if it has the AT&T logo on it.

David Kennedy on April 27, 2009, at 03:16PM – #23

Let's hope Oscar sticks around. His voice needs to be heard here.

Shooter on April 27, 2009, at 03:17PM – #24

Here's some video of the event, if it stutters or stalls just wait until is fully downloaded and then press play.

ODAproductions.com/fb09.swf

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 04:36PM – #26

Caryn Ho, you wrote the following:

"I walked up and down the whole event and I think I was the only person there who spoke the language of our city - ENGLISH. Everything was written in Spanish and everyone at the booths, etc. were speaking in Spanish. I thought I had crossed the border."

Are you proud of those words? You can spin them as you like. They don't remotely indicate "a greater peace and a love of the planet" in any way.

downtown neighbor on April 27, 2009, at 04:45PM – #28

Miss Ho, you've been living downtown for less than 3 months. Part of living in an urban center is tolerance for other cultures. After reading your comments it is apparent your only desire for "peace and blessings" is when it caters to your needs. Just because you and your yuppie friends have arrived downtown does not mean downtown has to tolerate your narcissistic attitudes. This community does not need ignorant people like you.

Tim on April 27, 2009, at 05:43PM – #29

"Part of living in an urban center is tolerance for other cultures." Correct. When you hold an event in an urban center, you need to understand that not everyone speaks your language and some effort should be made to reach out to everyone, not just people of your own ethnicity.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about that. The Los Angeles Times Festival of Books is an primarily an english speaking event, but they have readings in spanish. You can find korean-themed books. The Festival of Books recognizes the diverse population of this city and makes an effort so that no one will feel unwelcome. Fiesta Broadway could doesn't try at all. And it should.

Been There on April 27, 2009, at 05:57PM – #30

Wait a minute, everyone. Caryn Ho might be on to something. Maybe the Gay Pride Festival in West Hollywood is too gay. Why don't they bring in more straights? Perhaps the guys should stop talking in camp talk so that "the language of our city - English" is included?

It could be that Chinatown's Chinese New Year's celebration is too, well, Chinese. Maybe they are too many Irish at St. Patrick's Day festivities.

Oh, Caryn, you make me laugh!

David Kennedy on April 27, 2009, at 06:10PM – #31

Hmm, interesting argument from Ms. Ho. She justifies her narcissism with her civic involvement. I dare say this explains the behavior of a lot of public officials. Oh yeah, she's on the Events committee. I bet we ain't seen the last of her.

I find her other contention, that downtown events should cater primarily to downtown residents, distasteful. She uses a neat rhetorical trick which disenfranchises the 500,000 attendees at Fiesta Broadway. Since very few of them live in the affluent and exclusive loft buildings -- VOILA! -- no more unruly Fiesta Broadway attendees! They don't live here! I wonder what legal force she'd employ to pull this off?

I must say I'm impressed and taken aback by someone, anyone, in this day and age asserting the cultural superiority of affluent Caucasians and this empowering them to assert control over different ethnic groups; particularly when the disparity in numbers is so great. 20,000 gringos with money trump 500,000 poor Latinos? Wow! Her audacity is equally breathtaking and offensive. Good luck with that project, honey! Can't wait to see the headlines.

With good cheer, I must disagree with downtown neighborhood's comment that downtown doesn't need ignorant people like Ms. Ho. Come on! It will be fun to see her crash and burn. The amusement factor is just too seductive.

David Kennedy on April 27, 2009, at 06:16PM – #32

Getting back to the original post, here's a news report from Downtown News.

http://ladowntownnews.com/articles/2009/04/27/news/doc49f63b2364ef9081827496.txt

Ryan Price on April 27, 2009, at 09:04PM – #35

David Kennedy:

"I must say I'm impressed and taken aback by someone, anyone, in this day and age asserting the cultural superiority of affluent Caucasians and this empowering them to assert control over different ethnic groups; particularly when the disparity in numbers is so great. 20,000 gringos with money trump 500,000 poor Latinos?"

WTF? Not all Latinos are poor. Caucasians aren't culturally superior. And if Caryn Ho was really trying to "assert her control over different ethnic groups" this would "impress" you?

Your rant about Caryn's insensitivity comes off as racist and ridiculous.

LAGIRL on April 27, 2009, at 09:31PM – #36

David, I read the article and seems that they have the sisters names mixed up, doesn't seem to be very accurate. Here is some truth for you...Ron punched one of the girls in the face...then two men tried to restrain him and his strength and anger were to much for them to control. He got loose and grabbed the woman's pony tail...that is when the men tried to take him down a second time. They finally got him down but he would not let go of the woman and continued to hold her down with his legs. His partner then came running to the crowd thinking that he was being attacked and starting throwing punches at the crowd and kicking frantically to try and free his partner. This is just what I saw. Whatever the case...he struck a woman in the face and continued to attack her. I believe that if it weren't for the men that helped control him this may have been an obituary.

downtown neighbor on April 27, 2009, at 11:46PM – #37

Thank you LAGIRL for your account of the real story.

LAGirl on April 28, 2009, at 09:47AM – #40

By no means is Ron an old man...foolish of anyone to say this...Ron is a man who was very irate and full of adrenaline. Don, giving your opinion about how Ron is not strong enough, I laugh at you...you weren't there. Ron was swinging and kicking. the men that were trying to help her were also protecting themselves from injury. I saw it all and I am even shocked that anyone could be capable of such craziness. Just because he works for the City doesn't give him the credibility of being sane. Ron needs help as does his partner...these two together are a dangerous combination. Hope someone finds any type of surveillance video around the property to bring the facts to light.

Greg Kr on April 28, 2009, at 10:21AM – #41

Tim you've missed my point. Unless that black guy was whistling at that white girl to show up someone. Its not what you do it's the the way you do it. The excuses up there sound like a defense lawyers. I'm far from that. Ron wont solve his problems from an angry place. But he's such a victim! He might get something from this but he also might use it for his next attack. And I wonder where we learn that from?
He's bringing this shit on himself and if you dont understand that, one day you might. And why be outraged? He'll pay for his shit. I have my own shit.

I went. I walked to 1st street form 7th. That's where the stage was with ladies in boots dancing and men in cowboy hats singing. Very entertaining and in Spanish. All the good stuff could fit on 2 or 3 blocks but there are so many people, they need the room. Only lame part of the day was the military everywhere looking for more limbs.

Been There on April 28, 2009, at 11:59AM – #42

I commend blogdowntown for allowing this discussion to go where it has gone. It has allowed everyone to see the different emotions and reactions to Fiesta Broadway. It has also shed some light on the angry place that Ron has been coming from.

It is obvious, though, that blogdowntown dropped the ball in regards to coverage of the actual event. Eric explained that he held off because he was "not comfortable that (he) knows what version of events to believe (or where the truth lies in the middle)."

Journalistically, however, that was originally the story. That is, a violent event occurred right here in downtown Los Angeles and different versions of what happened and how it happened emerged. Both of those versions needed to be covered and presented in an impartial manner. Blogdowntown readers depending on only the blog were left in the dark.

What finally happened is that other sources beat blogdowntown to good coverage. Even the Downtown News had better and faster coverage. Blogdowntown's readers supplied some information in the comments section, but there was apparently no effort by BDT to expand those comments into an actual article. Even right now, blogdowntown's skimpy coverage from Sunday (with no photographs of anything, even the crime scene) is still its lead story on the incident. The unique advantages and attributes of the blog format were not utilized fully.

I wish blogdowntown the best with its new nonprofit status and its quest for sponsorship. It does seem however--at least in this case--that a harder and more timely and aggressive journalist approach is called for.

LA Native on April 28, 2009, at 01:40PM – #43

Yeah! I agree! Let’s see this story updated w/ some more info and pics/video of what happened! Sounds like it was one hell of a fight! Btw…. from what I’ve read sounds like they probably knew when they opened Loft Appeal that this “fiesta” takes place on & around the store and has for the last what? 20 yrs? I think I read…, so, why the hell would they change it now for some angry fag and his store? Ugh, this city is filled w/ so many narcissist people that feel they are entitled to whatever they want...

EO on April 28, 2009, at 01:57PM – #45

I'm glad I read this blog before deciding to attend Fiesta Broadway. I knew what to expect. It was definitely more corporate than cultural, but I still enjoyed myself. First time in years that I'd been to the Grand Central Market. Can't find tripe and pig skin tacos around my own neighborhood. (BTW, what's the latest word on Angels Flight?)

I'm not a fan of waiting in lines for cheap stuff, but my wife is, and that's that. It was cool though to just stand in the middle of throngs of people and admire the beautiful old buildings lining the street.

And I'm glad we lined up for the Disney castle/tent; the line moved pretty quickly, and my wife and I scored those cool Mickey Mouse ears and wizard caps. I could only understand 15% of the songs sung by the performers inside the tent, though I definitely recognized and enjoyed the tunes. I think the gist of the performance was to remind folks of free admission to the theme parks on your birthday this year. And apparently, you can hold quinceaneras at Disneyland with Disney princesses in attendance. (Has there been a Latina Disney princess yet? We're finally getting a black one in Tiana.)

We ended the day by picking up some macarons at Bottega Louie (first visit there) and grabbing some pasta to go at Pastagina in the Market Lofts.

It was an interesting contrast to the UCLA book festival we attended the day before. I had a good time at both. Ain't LA grand?

Been There on April 28, 2009, at 02:38PM – #47

LA Native, yes, that's my point (but without the derogative reference to gays). This is a compelling story that has been brewing for years. It involves pioneering business owners who have a long-standing and well-documented history of animosity with Fiesta Broadway. This animosity has now boiled over into violence and---where is blogdowntown?

Garza, your confusion is understandable. There is no information here. Sure, there was a little twitter action, but very little. We need photos and the good old journalistic who, what, why where, when and how. it's sad when the weak efforts of Downtown News trump those of blogdowntown.

Blogdowntown, you have a hard news story here that can be approached as such or even in a feature-story like angle. Photograph it, write about it, investigate it, interview it, ANYTHING---just cover this story. You are losing credibility by doing nothing.

Not a media locus on April 28, 2009, at 03:14PM – #48

Face it, downtown LA has weak media coverage and meek journalistic acumen, including this blog -- it's hard to fathom why any of you are surprised. Downtown News is on par with a high school paper -- good only to be crumpled up as pillows for the homeless.

One of the attractions of living / being downtown is the arts but both Downtown News and blogs like this one are clueless. Sounds like you people are expecting way too much from these sources.

Been There on April 28, 2009, at 06:05PM – #49

Media Locus, my expectations are lowered now. It's Tuesday and much of the edge has gone off this story. As I stated earlier, blogdowntown has dropped the ball.

Still, I'm disappointed because I care. I haven't agreed with the way Ron (and Rich) have dealt with Fiesta Broadway in the past. However, I admire both of them for their contributions to Downtown. Opening up Loft Appeal when they did was brave and even visionary.

I'm also upset about what happened. Despite who jumped who, Ron was hurt and he is a part of this community, just as Fiesta is part of it. This resonates with me and probably with many others who have been traumatized by filming, the police, the homeless, neighbors or anyone or anything else downtown. Ron is clearly in a dark place right now and I'd just like some information about the whole incident to help me understand and cope.

I know both Eric and Ed. I'm sure both of these intelligent and insightful men are upset also. They just need now to understand that blogdowntown can help with this whole thing by doing what they can do really well--telling the story of what happened in a compassionate and human way.

At this point, the best way to proceed is with an investigative, feature story. They should put this on the front burner and use this as a way to reach out to and communicate with downtown. It is not too late to do this story justice.

Oscar on April 29, 2009, at 12:43AM – #50

I am not taking sides here, whomever started that fight should face the consequences of it.

However I believe that as a community we should rally to demonstrate unity, any of us could get caught in that same situation, if somebody towed my car because of some event (or movie) I will be pretty angry too. If we rally maybe we can also illustrate the movie industry about us.

I'm sure 20 years ago when the Fiesta Broadway started it was a pretty cool idea to do it on Broadway Ave. on a Sunday because it was disolated, but now there is people living here and they are blocking a major avenue and causing problems to a community that is mostly not involved in this event.

I think it's time for them to move it somewhere else(BUT PLEASE DON'T CANCEL IT), how about Fiesta Molino St.? Or Fiesta Track st.? Or Fiesta Highland park (that really is a latino community)? Or Fiesta 2nd street tunnel? Or Fiesta Cornfield? Or maybe make it into a square instead of a long line that parts the downtown in 2?

Again, I really liked the idea of Fiesta Broadway and the money that brings to the city, but I believe that the location can be improved and avoid this type of consequences. It's time for us as community to take action.

I a different note that also has me somewhat worried is that the singer "El Chapo de Sinaloa" was named Grand Marshall of the Fiesta Broadway and was given a certificate of recognition by the city of LA and presented by Jose Huizar(nothing against Mr. Huizar maybe he just didn't know).

What is the problem wit this? Well nothing other than the fact that this guy goes under the AKA "El Chapo de Sinaloa" which is a clear reference to Joaquin Guzman Loera AKA "El Chapo" head of the the Sinaloa Cartel and whom coincidentally (what a coincidence!)was born on the same little town in Sinaloa, Mexico.

The question here is; is it OK for the city to publicly recognize a singer that trough narco-corridos idolizes druglords and criminals? I think NOT!

Cheech N Chong on April 29, 2009, at 01:30AM – #51

When we've allowed celebrity to eclipse nearly everything -- including fairness, logic, and intelligence -- you think the City of LA would have the balls to take a stand against glorifying narco culture despite 8,000 murders of Mexicans merely so US potheads can get high?

Ron Senger on April 29, 2009, at 01:17PM – #52

Hello Downtown Bloggers,

As the person who actually was kicked in the head several times and left with a shoe mark embedded on my face, I felt that I should put my two cents in. On friday we were assured by the Downtown Neighborhood Council that All Access would not be blocking access to the back door to our store. As they had NO... let me repeat NO permits to close the street, there should be nothing to worry about. 7:30 Sunday morning the fences were up blocking the back of the store and our car was towed away. Not just from the street, but from a private lot that we pay to park at. It was in the way. I was irate and I went to the check in counter to demand the return of my car and to see the street closure permits. What I got was "prove it...prove it...prove it" I'm sure I looked like a lunatic. That happens when people are irate. But when I called the girl behind the counter a name, her sister said "Don't you EVER and attacked me from behind the counter. Apparently since it looked like somebody was about to get hurt, Four male Fiesta Broadway employees tackled me to the ground where I was repeatedly kicked in the head and punched. When Rich pulled the guys off of me, the girl from behind the desk was yelling "kick him again...kick him again". The police came because I had called them about the missing car. While I was laying in the alley throwing up and trying to determine how badly my teeth were broken, the people that wer kicking me ran over to the police car and claimed I attacked the girl.What I am telling you is not sugarcoated in any way. It is not a version of the truth. It is the truth. And I will gladly take a lie detecter test! Maybe you don't agree with the tone I took with a girl at the check-in desk. Maybe this could have all been resolved in a peaceful way, but hindsight is 20-20. I should have waited for the police car. Please keep in mind there is a very distinct difference between insulting somebody by calling their father a criminal, and assault and battery. Also please remember that anybody that says they were there was either a family member of the promoter, or an employee. At least four of those witnesses could very well be charged with assualt. Right now there are cross-reports filed.

I am a professional engineer who knows how to communicate. I was selected to act as a Community and Council Liaison for my department for 9 years because of my ability to connect with the community. I have not been in a fist fight since the 5th grade.

If anybody is willing to take a stand for the sake of the truth and the future of downtown, now is the time. Ask Council District 14 what could have been done differently to prevent this type of confrontation. Why is nobody checking their permits? Why is their no code enforcement on weekends? Why is this event going to Council hidden deep in the Council Agenda two hours before the crews roll in to take over the streets? I've taken my punches for the cause, now I ask for a little support. I am not the bad guy. And frankly I'm beginning to think its just not worth it. You try running a business downtown under these conditions.

Howie on the Hill on April 29, 2009, at 05:02PM – #53

Well, well, well. Here we are. Anyone reading Ron's (& Rich's) posts over the years about Fiesta Broadway cannot possibly be surprized at the eventual hysterical outcome. But having said that, in law you don't get to hit people because they called your dad some thoughtless stupid names. "Sticks & stones etc...it's simply illegal, unless Ron threw the first punch...

...and as to MS HO HO's obviously racist comments, shameful. Ethnic festivals are ETHNIC...OMG stupid.

Rich and Ron are sort of very edgy controlling people. Talk about the need for a chill pill. My Dad once told me that... "Son always remember WORDS have consequences." And indeed they do. Get better Ron, and think twice next time, because you know there will be a next time...

And to Jim W. who always has a word like the Mandarin he thinks he is...oh really! Jim is part of that over controlling crowd in DT, late comers to Downtown, who truly think that they run it all.

"Can't we all just get along"....Rodney King

Hey! I got something to say! on April 29, 2009, at 06:06PM – #54

I have been living, working and playing downtown for well over two years now, and as a former westsider and OC girl, I am sure you can all gather plenty of assumptions about me. But you’d be wrong. And while I’ve been following blogdowntown pretty religiously since I arrived here (you could call it my downtown bible), I love that generally the site is informational and not more journalistic. It’s been my friend when I knew no one downtown. It’s given me the best insider scoops on the best places to eat/drink, hang out or take photos. Let’s not go there and try and bash this site for failing to provide the gory details – and an opinion - of what went down this weekend. It does what it does well. It never attempted to be an LA Times Jr.

This is the first time that I’ve ever felt compelled to write. I’m astounded at the anger this post (and its responses) has generated in a number of you. I don’t know; call me naïve, but I really enjoy the people I come across downtown – no matter what walks of life they originated from or where they’re headed. And so I really find it sad that this went down at all, and that a safe, fair posting about the incident has sparked such disgusting commentary. I’m disappointed in you, my fellow downtowners. While I don’t agree with what words Caryn Ho selected to use, I am sickened by the treatment she received for speaking her mind. This isn’t typically the venue where I normally see these emotional debates, and while I think it’s a good discussion to have – frequently – I don’t think it was fair for everyone to come down so hard on Caryn (or anyone here, thus far).

I’m so sorry this incident this past weekend sparked violence. I don’t know those involved personally, but the whole thing makes me want to drink heavily and cry. OK, not really. But it does make me really sad. No one should raise their hand in anger towards others. Please. Downtown’s a swell place – mostly ‘cause of folks like yourselves - and I love it here. Let’s keep it that way. And bring back to guacamole, for crissakes.

vanessa downtown news on April 29, 2009, at 06:17PM – #55

mr. garza and any and all who think the same way:

if you don't like something, then change it...fix it...find a resolve...make suggestions...share ideas. or like my mom taught me: "don't say anything at all if you're not going to say anything nice"

really now, we all have opinions, but nobody has the time to listen/ read negative comments or peoples' rants.

quite frankly, i'm not offended when folks choose to speak their minds against my employer, BUT get your fact straights, don't create tension, and certainly don't try to boycott a 37-year old source of information. it's just plain tacky!

Howie on April 29, 2009, at 06:38PM – #56

"ENGLISH. Everything was written in Spanish and everyone at the booths, etc. were speaking in Spanish. I thought I had crossed the border." HO

You crossed into LA!

ETHNIC FESTiVALS, like the Chinese MOON Festival, or the Japanese Bodi Day, or the Korea Town Rhee Festival or...Latin Gay Pride (mostly Latino gays, oh my!) or the Watts Jazz Festival, mainly African-Americans. It's about the joy of diversity and the richness in the transcultural experiences. Everything does not have to be white milk...also just as an fyi: The Fiesta Broadway has been Downtown in one form or another since the late 1800's. I take pride in who I am, and who you are too! - No violence in Downtown.

Jon on April 29, 2009, at 10:19PM – #60

I once tried to say something on this board that was misconstrued as "anti-latino," even though it wasnt... and i got my head chewed off too

reverse racism against white americans is way too prevalent in downtown la.

learn english. pay taxes. take responsibility. problem solved.

Hipster 8 on April 29, 2009, at 11:32PM – #61

There are such things as "fighting words". That is, words or slurs which when directed at an individual can result in physical response or were always intended to provoke violence.

That is why such language, or direct threat of violence, is not protected speech and often criminalized as "assault" with the associated "battery" charge being any actual physical contact resulting. Assault need not be verbal either. Something as simple as brandishing and threatening a weapon like a baseball bat could be assault with a deadly weapon. There is no need the weapon actually have been used other than to intimidate for assault to have occurred.

In this instance, it sounds like he's possibly looking at a charge of assault and she battery. But under normal circumstance it would unlikely to go anywhere as an isolated incident until the others jumped in. Fighting words directed at an individual (rather than a group) do not excuse the behavior of the people who then joined in. Their charge should be straight assault.

Also, according to Loft Appeal's website they open at 10a on Sundays, not 7:30a, which could leave a neutral with the impression some provocation of an incident was intended.

richreams on April 30, 2009, at 08:17AM – #62

First of all I want to thanks the many people who have called, and emailed their kind words. I’m sorry but I will not be able to return all the calls…I was not going to get caught up in the blog on all this, but since some of the people who assaulted Ron have chimed in, as well as at least one bigot, who is probably related to that person. I will make a small statement. Let me just say, those who know Ron, will agree this idea that Ron attacked anyone is laughable. We have been very involved with the community since opening our store almost 6 years ago. You have seen us at many Skid Row Walks, sponsoring community clean ups, LAPD toy drives, community meeting, and more. Most people know Ron as the quite guy and me as the big mouth…OK that is true, and if this had happened to me, no one would have had any doubt that I could have been suspect…but not Ron, and thank god so many have known him and worked with him, and know that this is not something he could do. Ron is a believer that the pen is mightier than the sword...Those who have seen the photos of his face know this was not about self-defense. The truth will come out in court. Ron is the quite computer nerd. What I will tell you, is that he was attacked, thrown to the ground, held down by 4 guys, with a woman kicking him in the head and face, while another woman yelled “kick him, kick him, kick him, if I hadn’t gotten there when I did, and pushed and kicked people off him, they probably would have killed him. Both women were smiling as Ron was kicked in the head. What is even more appalling is that an off duty LA Paramedic witnessed this beating and did nothing to stop it. If you are ever in an emergency I hope this guy does not show up. Obviously a “friend of the promoter or an employee” The women were enjoying this brutal beating, as they were smiling. It reminded me of a gang banger movie with bitches beating someone for being on their turf. In the past, employees of this event, have told us that they “own” the street...are you getting the picture? Here are a few more FACTS…yes, Ron did knock down a few orange cones, and yes, he called one woman a bitch for having our car towed ILLEGALLY towed, and refusing to show him a permit to close our Midway Pl (city street) entrance to our store. This street was closed illegally with no permit, just because they rented every parking lot on the street, they took over the street we use to access our store for loading. Without a permit... But for anyone to think Ron attacked anyone without himself being attacked first is laughable!!! By the way did anyone mention that one woman came out from the protection of a long row of folding tables, to get at Ron for calling the other one a bitch. Which she was, and I even called her worse, which she was, but nothing makes what they did to Ron, right…there was no justification for this beating…they were vicious, wild animals. I can just imagine how proud the father of these “classy ladies” must be! I’m wondering what any of you would do if your spouse was attached like this. The truth will come out…we will no longer allow others to abuse our civil rights and us. I personally feel that this is retaliation for Ron’s speech in City Council to Councilman Huizar last year, as a taxpayer, that caused this group to have to pay the city $100,000. By the way, last year Jan Perry made a formal motion in City Council, to have the event moved to the Civic Center, where less residents and businesses would be impacted. But apparently the rest of the Council had a “not in my back yard “ attitude, and voted her down. Wouldn’t want to mess up the grass at city hall, right? And, last year, this event was not even brought before the City Council until 2 days after the event was over. The approval for the event did not come for several weeks later. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN??? When & how is the public able to have their say… That alone is criminal…or a least screams ethic questions from the Council! Also, the organizer was told directly by Councilman Huizar, that the promoter had to make sure Loft Appeal was not impacted by this event. this directive, from Councilman Huizar, was ignored by the promoter, and not one single phone call was ever made to us regarding this event, no notice was ever delivered or mailed to us about this event. Yet, everything around us was shut down, No Street Parking, All the parking lots were taken by the event, our Midway Place entrance was chain link fenced off. Our customers were blocked access to our store. This was NO ACCESS, not all access… Some people think they are above the law, and can screw over anyone they want…we will see! As everyone, who has been involved with the meetings over the past years will know, this promoter and his representatives have been lying to locals for years. As a matter of fact, at the Grand Opening of our new store Councilman Huizar told us that yes, they had been lying to him, and he was getting tired of it. But, Still business as usual with them. This has had a huge toll on our emotions’, and now live in fear of more retaliations from this group. If anything happens to us, the world will know where it came from. Our dreams for this Downtown Los Angeles have been shattered. We have invested millions of dollars in these businesses, and we will decide in the next few weeks, where this will take us. We thank all our loyal supporters and customers. Maybe we expected it to be more civilized down here…someday it will happen. I doubt if we will be here to see it. We will not be discussing this any more, our time will come in court. Thanks,Rich

rich reams on April 30, 2009, at 09:02AM – #63

Sorry, one small comment, to the person who commented about our hours, being 10 am. You have never owned your own business have you??? You will find me here 7 to 7:30 am every morning 7 days a week...we close at 5 on Sunday, 6 the rest of the week, and we are there until at least 9pm every night, many times til 11 or 12 pm, so please don't read something into something that is not there. We got there that morning to pick up furniture to take to the other store and get out of there before the crowds. Next time please put it in a question, and don't assume... Thanks

diplomanHOPE on April 30, 2009, at 02:11PM – #64

Rich Reams, what you both called those ladies were " FAT FUCKEN CUNTS" You and your partner are disgusting with all this talk of peace and harmony...As a man, you don't use those words on any occasion, no matter the situation... BTW, I hope the court makes you take a lie detector test, because for a fact you didn't witness half of what happened, you showed yourself after your partner had punched this lady in the face...boy I really hope they make you take that test...half of what you have written is untrue, may god help you son.

rich reams on April 30, 2009, at 03:54PM – #65

Yes, you are right about 1 thing...and one thing only... those are the exact words we used on the FFC, AFTER Ron was brutally beaten...try and get some part of the truth in there. This is the last of the defending. I guess if you brutally beat someone, while 4 guys hold them down, your not disgusting...it's pretty clear whose payroll you are on. And by the way, they were far from ladies...

Greg Kr on April 30, 2009, at 04:53PM – #66

Imagine working in that court. What a miserable job. Have fun in there guys, Im thankful Im not a witness..

Hipster 9 on April 30, 2009, at 10:11PM – #67

Rich and Ron: If I were your criminal defense attorney, I would be telling you to stop talking about this incident. Nothing you have said here has done you any good should you be facing criminal charges for your behavior.

Been There on May 01, 2009, at 10:25AM – #68

.....and all this brings me back to my point. Blogdowntown's coverage of this incident is subpar and unacceptable. Garza, you can lay into Downtown News all you want. The sad truth is that we have to wait until its new edition comes out to get half-way decent coverage of this brawl.

Blogdowntown? You want our sponsorship money but you blew out the biggest story of the year in favor of "Businesses Who Twitter" and "Is Downtown Retail Stalled?" Welcome to a just slightly heavier version of Angelenic (First Look at Pulled Pork!!).

Ed Fuentes---did you break your camera? Eric Richardson---did you swallow a timid pill? You two guys--at least in this case--are the mild cats. Hey, if you two can't or are not up to covering this then why not call in another downtown blogger to help you out? How about Trained Monkey? White Boy? Skid Row Scribe? ANYONE!!! Even wacky LA Cowboy could have done a better job.

As things stand now, you've let this big one get sucked into the toilet. Caryn ("I crossed the border!") Ho, you said you'd pray for me, but I have a request. Pray for blogdowntown. This blog needs salvation---and good news coverage!

Howie on May 01, 2009, at 12:06PM – #69

If I am not mistaken about 3 or so years ago on another Blog Ron treatened a local group that said they were going to picket Loft Appeal for his/their seemingly anti-Latino position on the Fiesta. Rons response was to the effect "if you show up here you have a fight on your hands..." Was this a real threat or heat of the moment..? The actions of Ron & Rich seem to bear out the truth perhaps. There is NEVER a reason to threaten violence or DO violence EVER!

Peace in Downtown.

learn English AND learn other languages on May 01, 2009, at 01:32PM – #70

Instead of only encouraging people to learn one other language, why aren't we stressing learning four?

Jaason on May 01, 2009, at 02:08PM – #71

I actually appreciate blogdowntown's restraint in reporting on this issue. If they facts are not known, what good would speculating do?

keep up the good work Eric

Been There on May 01, 2009, at 03:04PM – #72

Jaason, no coverage is the ultimate restraint. You must be ecstatic. Since when is nothing "good work"?

If every news entity were to exercise such restraint, we would have absolutely no coverage of anything until after the last conclusive detail were to come in. Developing stories would be a thing of the past. Forget breaking news and its details. We might have had a full term of Nixon because Watergate would not have been covered the way it was. (Didn't the Washington Post receive a Pulitzer Prize for reporting that?)

Notice that blogdowntown has been covering the May 1 marches as the information comes in. Jaason, do you consider this to be lack of restraint or just standard reporting? Is blogdowntown speculating or just presenting information? Why has this blog not been covering the Fiesta incident in the same manner?

No one is asking for speculation about the brawl. The speculation comes in when no coverage is presented. For example, there has been plenty of speculation right here in the comments section.

It's not too much to ask an organization that has been requesting our financial support to present whatever information is already established. Actual facts that can be uncovered should be presented in a solid, journalistic manner. If not, then why support BDT financially?

Maybe Eric should speak up and tell us all why no investigative information has been presented. Ed, why are there no photos? Gentlemen, why have you passed on this story, leaving us to the mercy to hapless Downtown News?

Why?

Tim on May 01, 2009, at 06:09PM – #73

Wow. What happened? When did blogdowntown turn into CurbedLA? And regarding post #68..we only speak of Angelenic with love...it was great...and sadly missed.

In fact, I liked Angelenic so much that I would write Rich a love poem right now, except Rich only rhymes with "itch" or "bitch" or "snitch" or "ditch"and no matter how you put that all together, it doesn't come out nice.

(It is Friday. I am drinking. Life is good.)

Hipster 10 on May 01, 2009, at 09:34PM – #74

“According to my detectives, it is very clear that Senger is the primary aggressor here,” said Vernon, who stressed that the investigation is still in the preliminary stage. “He is really the one that pushed this whole issue that led to the level of it being a battery. That’s our initial observation.”

http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2009/05/01/news/doc49f63b2364ef9081827496.txt

Boothe on May 01, 2009, at 11:52PM – #75

The first mistake you made, was to go out there alone.

The second mistake, was to show your anger. You can BE angry, but never show it. Anger will support the motive argument the attorneys make against you.

The biggest mistake you made, was confronting a female that is part of a bigger crowd. Regardless of the situation, you always smile and walk away. Don't ever bring attention to yourself. If you do anything that sparks interest, you'll be remembered.

At this point, you only have 1 option. Make sure this goes to court and get your attorney to start subpoena-ing everyone involved. That way, you'll get the addresses and personal information on the docket.

Be patient and wait it out. When the time is right, you can deal with it at your own pace.

Cycling with her pooch. on May 02, 2009, at 11:35AM – #76

As a native Angelino and a Downtown resident for 7 years, I have to say that I'm repulsed by Caryn Ho's comment, she may have not wanted for her message to come off racist, but in short it did, what can I say that hasn't already been said about her comment, it was shameful.

As for Fiesta Broadway, I feel that it needs to move towards a more cultural event, rather than a "corporate", remove the "army" tents, and have a time limit of all major assembling of polls, fences, heavy equipment, street sweeping and the like, to a reasonable hour (they worked late, and started early 7 a.m. and swept until 2 a.m.) frustrating to say the least. It's long over due for some serious discussion on the impact of this event.

L.S. on May 02, 2009, at 12:05PM – #77

To Rich and Ron,

I think what I’m trying to understand is why in the world didn’t you just close the store for the day? If no one can get to your store why be open? Or, why not hire a Mariachi band, and serve nonalcoholic margaritas and offer a 20% discount for Fiesta Broadway attendees? Or just close shop and head to the beach, you had more than one option that day. I know as a woman I would not take kindly to being called such a repugnant name, and if my boyfriend were standing beside me, he might see to it that your face and the payment get to know each other better. After all of this, was it worth it? All of the stress, the beat down? The negative press about you and now your store? Dude next time, turn around and walk away.

Cycling with her pooch on May 02, 2009, at 03:44PM – #78

Fiesta Broadway 1992 (3 minute clip) enjoy.

Cycling with her pooch on May 05, 2009, at 06:19PM – #80

Thank you Kevin Lynn, I thought I'd shed some fun on this conversation, I'm glad you enjoyed ;)

Suze on May 21, 2009, at 11:09PM – #81

As a woman, I would have called those women EXACTLY the same thing and worse under the described circumstances. If you don't want to be called a name, then don't act the part. There is no such thing in the grown up or legal world as "fighting words" Grow up. This isn't high school. So you got called a rude name. So what?

I imagine that the medical records will show if she was actually punched in the face. (contusions, etc...whether his hand was swollen or scraped from throwing the punch and connecting) Meanwhile, regardless - nothing justifies assault. Not name calling. On either side.