kevin on May 07, 2009, at 03:07PM – #1

i moved downtown so i could take the metro to my job in hollywood. i actually haven't used my car in 3 weeks! hard to believe! but i still need it to go grocery shopping and the occasional cross town trip.

Eric on May 07, 2009, at 03:09PM – #2

I live in Southpark and work in the Fashion dist. By choice, I do not drive. That was one of the reasons my wife and I wanted to move from Beverly Hills to downtown. She does drive but it's the same distance to work as our old place. Some days she will leave her car at home and take the red line into Hollywood. I don't really know anyone who lives down here but drives to Irvine. That's just craziness.

Bartleight on May 07, 2009, at 03:19PM – #5

I have worked Downtown for about 10 years and have lived here for 3. When I moved from Glendale to Downtown I realized that I was paying to store my car in a parking garage, because I am able to walk the 4ish blocks from the Historic Core to my Bunker Hill jobsite. I sold my car 3 years ago and it's the first time I've been without a car since I was 16 (just for reference that’s 30 years). I love it! No more car payments, maintenance, gas, or insurance.

Neva on May 07, 2009, at 03:33PM – #6

We'd ditch our car if there were reliable services within walking distance. Some maintain you can find everything on Broadway if you look, but I find the quality and selection to be sketchy or severely lacking. We, too, only get in our car perhaps twice a month, but until more services come closer to us offering the products, pricing, & convenience we seek, we'll be stuck doing our "Pasadena Loop" at least once every other month.

We make great use of local shopping: GrandCentral, Ralphs, Rite Aid, the bakery at 6th&Broadway, the new store on 6th btwn Brdwy&Spring, Market on Spring, Big Lots, Fallas, the Famimas -- & more (I won't ramble on). It's a hunt-and-peck approach when shopping downtown, & sometimes I just wanna hit a few stores I know will have what I want all at once. Gathering with the downtown approach would either take consistent effort (to hit one or two stores a day) or too much of my weekend. When one gets off work at 5, you can't hit many shops before everything closes at 6 or 6:30. While I've considered the gold line, shlepping a heavy cart of stuff in Pasadena going store to store, then having to go metro, then walk several blocks home -- too much time. Certainly can't do perishables.

So Mr. Woo has only half of it right -- we're keeping our cars, but will gladly ditch the $120 (or more) a month it costs to house them once the services move in close enough and stay open late enough. We're waiting patiently -- TAP cards in hand.

Ankur on May 07, 2009, at 04:24PM – #8

Yeah, I have my car - but I do drive a LOT less than I use to.

Ryan Price on May 07, 2009, at 04:35PM – #10

I just signed my second year long lease in Downtown LA, and work in Culver City.

The second the Expo Line opens the car is staying in the work parking lot, and I'm taking the $95/month I pay for parking now and putting it in my pocket.

Unfortunately I do have to keep the car for business purposes (I have to drive around and visit clients), othwerwise I would sell the thing.

Jeff Alu on May 07, 2009, at 05:51PM – #11

I commute to Buena Park from downtown every day. I hope to get a job in downtown, but for now, Buena Park it is. The traffic isn't too bad, lucky.

Moved here two months ago, used to commute from OC to Buena Park. Now my drive to work is actually 3 miles further. I didn't move to downtown to save on commute, but because I wanted a change in lifestyle. Glad I made the move because I love it here.

Bert Green on May 07, 2009, at 06:27PM – #14

I think Woo is basing his assessment not on the habits of downtown residents but on the preferences of developers to provide ample parking options to residents, and to the city's requirements for providing parking with development. I don't know any developers who have the guts to develop a building with no parking (either on site of off site), and until recently it was illegal to do so.

Personally, I keep my car because it is 17 years old and runs good, and I have no payments. I have a cheap spot in my building, but use it once a week or so only. If it broke down or was wrecked I would not replace it. I use Metro to get most places, and walk to work, but the occasional trip to see family, make artwork deliveries, or similar makes it convenient to have a car. If I gave it up I'd probably rent one now and then.

Russell on May 07, 2009, at 06:39PM – #15

I've been car free for 2 years, lost my job downtown and now work in Silverlake, and look forward to my bike ride to work every day!

Take that, Michael Boo!

Lauren on May 07, 2009, at 07:16PM – #16

I still have a car, but I commute entirely using the DASH. Within the last few months, I've even switched to doing most of my grocery shopping by walking and public transportation. I use my car when I need to get out to parts of the valley that still have poor transit options. However, I only use my car infrequently and go through about 1 tank of gas every three months. That said, I can understand the desire by retailers to have good parking available. I can walk to most places that I visit, but I also want people from outside the Downtown community to be able to visit and spend their money here. It's not easy for my guests to find street parking when they come to my place.

Browngirl on May 07, 2009, at 11:26PM – #18

I work nights so sometimes I get home or leave at shady hours so I use my car in the winter..I try to bus it when I have more sunlight in the summer. Now I would never EVER feel a need to leave downtown if they would only open a Target here which I obsessively go to 3-4 times a week!! And maybe a H&M to boot...those two pretty much my excuse to leave!

I think one small car is good for a couple and not too much of a strain on the parking demand, the only thing that annoys me is the massive two trucks I see in my lot all the time. It's not inland empire why do they have such big cars taking up all the space?!

WTF!? on May 07, 2009, at 11:30PM – #19

This is the most ignorant deflection of a lack of prior leadership and planning related to Adaptive Reuse I have heard to date. What the heck did people think would happen when residential conversion began?

None of these old buildings were built with parking because they predated the Southern California car culture. Nearly every single Adaptive Reuse project has been green-lighted with parking variances all other residential developments must adhere to.

This is exactly what is wrong with the civic leadership in Los Angeles, everyone wants to blame everything else except themselves for the consequences of their decisions made without looking at all the ramifications of those decisions.

Why? Quite frankly, most civic leaders seem more interested in delivering for the special interests that helped them get in power.

This is an absurd statement from someone who should simply tell the truth -- we didn't think of that and now we need to come up with some new ideas to solve the problem we could have anticipated years ago.

Thanks Mike Woo for moving on and leaving us to deal with your mess. Count on this voter making sure you get the message next time he can deliver it to you at the polls.

Andy W on May 07, 2009, at 11:31PM – #20

I bike and Red Line to Studio City. Get my exercise in, chill on the train, do work, zone out, read the paper. Excited about Goldline extension. First trip may be to the end of the line and up Atlantic into Monterey Park for dimsum. I think a lot of residents are grateful for the wealth in transit. It's a top 3 reason for living here.

Bert Green on May 08, 2009, at 12:42AM – #22

Anyone who is interested can viw the adaptive reuse ordinance at:

http://www.ladbs.org/rpt_code_pub/adaptive_reuse_projects.htm

The whole point was to allow development of housing without the onerous requirements of parking (among other things).

The Dude on May 08, 2009, at 01:22AM – #23

You have to consider the source; it's only Michael Woo. Try having a conversation with him sometime because it's like he's partially brain-dead or something. The man definitely seems to be one without convictions, who tends to go whichever way the wind is currently blowing. After hearing him speak several times, and even taking a class from him at USC (got an A), I don't think he really has much of a relationship with reality...and he seems to have severed his relationship with reality a really long time ago.

Juichi on May 08, 2009, at 01:51AM – #24

I got rid of my car, but the person I live with had one so I could ride with him when necessary. I was lucky enough to have jobs that were very convenient to public transportation.

Like Brown Girl said there's key places that are missing in Downtown that would be nice to have. I have to agree with the Target and H&M. It would also be great to have an electronics store, like Best Buy or Fry's. Although you can just as easily take the bus to get to any of these. There's places that sell clothes or food or electronics in downtown, but it's not always the quality or the price that you want.

The one thing I'm surprised no one has brought up is the job market in downtown. I would LOVE to work downtown, but the types of jobs I'm qualified for don't exist downtown.

I also have to agree with the issues of public transportation. It doesn't always run in the areas you need to go, often enough in the areas you need to go, or as late as you need it to be running.

Jasmijn on May 08, 2009, at 09:26AM – #25

Our 2-driver household has 2 cars, both paid for and running fine, like Bert's; also garaged the vast majority of the time. I'm taking classes at PCC: I used to just take the Gold Line, but one of my classes this semester goes till 10 pm 2 days a week. So now I regularly drive those two days -- otherwise, we drove about once a week, both of us combined.

As others have pointed out, there are a lot of places in this vast city where public transport doesn't go, or doesn't do so conveniently (meaning without multiple transfers). We'll be keeping at least one of our cars, no matter what, so we need our parking spaces, but we're not adding them to the freeway traffic load, usually.

JM on May 08, 2009, at 09:36AM – #26

We're a one-car family. My wife drives to work near Downtown and I take a bus to Century City. We have to drive on weekends to go shopping, but we also walk around Downtown a lot. I think Mr. Woo should take a stroll Downtown one of these days and he'll notice that there's a lot more traffic, because people are coming in to LA Live events and all the new bars and restaurants. There are also a lot more tourists in town. Chances are, they're coming from Woodland Hills or Irvine! We need public parking structures, like in neighboring areas (For example, Glendale and Pasadena), where you don't have to pay $10-20 to park. I don't think it would lure more drivers to Downtown, because the whole point is to walk around, but, even if it did, isn't the whole point to revitalize the area and attract people? I think public (underground?) parking is one of the key issues for the future of Downtown infrastructure; improved public transportation being another other obvious one. I just worry that, as usual, the point will be discussed to death, money will be earmarked (and then diverted), and nothing will happen until there's a crisis. Let's hope our fearless leaders can find a common sense approach that would have Los Angeles leading the pack, rather than wondering what went wrong.

David on May 08, 2009, at 11:14AM – #27

As a developer, I can tell you that I would love to build projects without parking since it is so expensive but even if I was not required to build parking, I would still build it. The problem is not that the City requirements, it is that a lot of people who want to move Downtown still want two parking spaces.
All of my observations are a little out of date now that the market has imploded but when the boom was on, the number one deal killer when selling units was the lack of parking (BTW: The second was HOA's fees too high) and this was for units that already came with a parking space on-site. I was asked so many times, "Where can I find a second parking space?", tell them about the parking garage a 1/2 block down the stret and get a response like, "That's too far to walk" or "I don't want to walk alone at night."
(see the next post for a continuation of my thought - sorry it is so long but I spent a huge amount of time on this very problem).

David on May 08, 2009, at 11:24AM – #28

I feel that the group that is actually interested in living Downtown by spending the time to read Downtown-related blogs is not quite representative of the average person looking at Downtown as a place to live. There are a lot of people, when looking for a place to live, look at Downtown as just one of the many competing places (at least Downtown is now on the list of places to look). So they weigh the pros and cons of living Downtown and since Downtown is not cheaper than most other places, the decision is made on amenities and it seems the most important amenity is parking. These people are thinking, "Why should I spend the same amount of money but have to hassle with parking every night when I can live in Hollywood, Culver City, Silverlake, etc. with easier and cheaper parking?"
So even though this thinking doesn't really hold for you guys, the people it does hold for aren't really commenting on this blog. Even though I hate to say Woo's observation is correct, I think it is mostly correct. But one thing I think being overlooked is that a lot of people I know who moved Downtown still commute but that they moved Downtown because it was a shorter commute. If people are halving their commute, that's a good thing over-all. If everyone halved their commute, it would help out tremendously.

Vero Queero on May 08, 2009, at 12:08PM – #30

I've lived Downtown for 2 years (thanks to Bartleight of #5 for influencing me). I have a car but I only take it to work in Burbank about twice a month. The rest of time, I buy the MTA pass, walk to the Red Line @ 7th & Fig, then take a bus from Hollywood & Highland which drops me off in front of work. The $62 per month pass is much cheaper than driving an older car that needs more repairs and I feel good about decreasing my carbon footprint, there's less stress and I've made a friend and countless acquaintances. The bad thing is that the drive is typically 20 minutes while the MTA commute is 1 1/2 hours. That's about 7 1/2 hours a week more than driving. That part sucks. I haven't heard anything about Michael Woo in years--he's still around?

Bert Green on May 08, 2009, at 01:01PM – #31

David, I agree with you that the majority of people who look to move downtown have the mindset that they need extra parking, but what I have seen is that once people actually move in and settle here they start to realize that they don't need their cars as much as they though they would. It's the experience of living downtown that changes their attitude.

Anton on May 08, 2009, at 01:14PM – #32

I commute to Santa Monica every day for work. Definitely not the reason why I moved downtown.

John on May 08, 2009, at 01:31PM – #33

I walk to work everyday and I still have my car. I use it a lot less, maybe once or twice a week but if I ever want to visit friends on the westside I drive, and I think most people here do need parking spots. I think it is a problem that a lot of buildings here don't have parking, especially guest parking. It is hard to convince people to come downtown and enjoy all the new aspects of it when they know that they are going to have to pay $25 for a parking spot.

JM on May 08, 2009, at 04:46PM – #34

David, I'm sure the lack of parking is a deal breaker for many people as you pointed out, but then, by the same logic, don't those people end up living elsewhere? I think we probably are in fact a fairly representative and diverse bunch here (although I'm sure we're more vocal than most) and I think most people who move Downtown are the type to adapt their lifestyle to fit the environment and make some sacrifices. I don't think there's a pressing need for off-street parking, but I do see street parking/public parking as an issue Downtown.

RPL on May 09, 2009, at 06:40AM – #37

Reading through all of the comments, it appears that a car sharing service such as Zipcar would be really successful in downtown. It would be great for anybody who only needs a car one or two days a week, and would free up parking for visitors from other areas if residents sold their cars.

Such a service could be leveraged further if the city would use it to replace their vehicle fleet as was done in Philadelphia:

http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/09/02/should-city-embrace-better-way-of-car-sharing/

Just found this as well, looks like Zipcar is promoting such fleet/car share hybrids:

http://www.prnewswire.com/mnr/zipcar/38015/

AM on May 09, 2009, at 10:00AM – #39

I'm an LA native (pasadena) that has been wanting to move downtown for nearly two years, just hasnt' been the right timing. I work in Santa Monica, have friends in the valley, the west side, OC, west hollywood, and burbank. So basically, I drive alot for work and pleasure though I find myself in downtown nearly every weekend.

Even once I move there, I know I will still use my car often - there's too many great places to see and things to do in LA which unfortunately public transpo does not reach (or takes waayy to long). And if I have a roommate then yes...two parking spaces would be nice.

Not everyone moving downtown does so for commuting purposes. Ever think that people just like the neighborhood and the things it has to offer?

I guess being from LA i've developed the mindset that driving is no big deal. Work where you need to work and live where you want to play and relax. Of course I'd love a 5 minute walking or bike commute but I'm not going to necessarily change jobs just to suite that or move to the west side when I'd rather be downtown.

Like I Was Saying on May 09, 2009, at 07:40PM – #40

Adaptive Reuse created live/work spaces without addressing the parking requirements all other residential development navigates.

Did people think that hundreds of small businesses operating out of live/work lofts would not increase the demand for parking? Deliveries, clients, employees, etc.?

What about the inevitable storefront business development? What about nightlife development? None of these things occurred to planners like Woo?

It seems pretty lame to blame the parking crunch on nothing more than residents who work outside Downtown.

Vero Queero on May 10, 2009, at 01:37AM – #41

AM: you belong downtown! Quit making excuses, the time is NOW! (easier said than done) I'm a native Angeleno (Highland Park), lived 2 years in the Valley (never again), then 16 years on the westside, then 2 years here. I was only coming Downtown about once a month--1/4 the time you spent here and yet I'm so effen glad I moved here. You sound like a total Downtowner--make the move, you won't regret it! (Disclaimer: it's not for everyone; people like Kathryn Maese from the Downtown News is pretending to enjoy it--she'd be so much happier in Brentwood but she'll never admit it.

Bert Green on May 10, 2009, at 02:31AM – #42

Like I Was Saying writes "Adaptive Reuse created live/work spaces without addressing the parking requirements all other residential development navigates."

The entire point of adaptive reuse is that existing buildings would be too expensive to convert to residential if they were required to confirm to the same minimum parking requirements as new construction. In the 10 years since Adaptive Reuse, the city council has passed the Downtown Specific Plan, which removes the minimum parking requirement entirely and decouples parking from development. Now parking can become a separate market-rate entity (as Daveed Kapoor described above "if you want to drive you pay for it"). For the first time it is legal to build with no parking. Like David says, however, very few developers would do that, but in a few years we might see that start to happen if other developers decide to gamble on building dedicated garages.

I don't understand why some posters here insist that there is not enough parking downtown. It's abundant and cheap. You can park for a $5 flat rate on Main, for 10 hours in the day and free at night under and over the 101 and 110 freeways (just a few blocks walk from South Park), at Pershing Square for cheap at night, and many places validate or have valets.

In front of my business, there are open meters all day long. Anyone who wants to visit can find parking easily on the street or park in a lot for a few dollars. Parking in WeHo or Beverly Hills is far more expensive, and it's almost impossible to park on the street in those areas as well. Daily rates in Chicago and New York's downtown areas start at $25. We have it easy here.

50% of my visitors arrive via walking or transit. There is no other area in LA that can boast that statistic, because the rest of LA is a slave to the car.

The Dude on May 10, 2009, at 03:04AM – #43

It would be really nice to see some more multilevel parking structures downtown--there are soooo many surface lots that waste space at night.

If the developers of adjacent buildings would do a joint agreement with each other to build up some of these surface lots, then new residents and downtown customers could have the convenient parking they want and developers wouldn't have to shoulder the entire ~$35,000+ per parking space cost. Plus, more multilevel structures on former surface lots would mean fewer surface lots needed, and more opportunity for redevelopment and greater walkability downtown.

Oh, and can someone tell me why ~4th and Flower there are obnoxious buzzing light-up signs telling pedestrians to watch for cars exiting a parking structure when THERE'S A CROSSWALK PAINTED ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY? Seems half-assed backwards to me...

JM on May 10, 2009, at 08:13PM – #44

Bert:

While there is indeed lots of parking Downtown, I'd rather see my money reinvested in local government than going to some shady guy who owns a parking lot that looks like war-torn Beirut and who hikes his prices whenever he feels like it. Street parking is limited and I like it that way. More indoor parking and less street parking (bus lanes, maybe?) would be fine with me.

Simon Ha on May 11, 2009, at 11:07AM – #46

Eric,

I was sitting next to Mike Woo when he made these comments. I don't think he was wrong, just partially right. I know many downtowners who commute to other cities for work. They want the city lifestyle but don't work in finance, law, or government. We live in a polycentric region with an embedded car culture. Our alternative transportation options are in its infancy and will continue to grow. Reducing parking does not necessarily mean people will drive less.

I live and work in the same neighborhood and walk to work. I have a baby daughter and my wife is a stay at home mom. We have two cars. Mine sits mostly in the garage and gets taken out once a week or two but my wife drives regularly. Can we get by with one car... I suppose. But since both of our cars are paid off and parking is included with our lease, I don't want to get rid of my car because I do have to drive to meetings or to visit friends or any other place that's not Downtown or Hollywood.

I think Mike Woo was trying to make a point that developers want to provide as much parking as possible because the customers demand it. Even in Downtown, people without cars are still a small minority. As the city continues to gain residential population and jobs, more amenities will follow. As downtown becomes more livable, we’ll see less dependence on cars. Jay Kim from DOT has been preaching this at various urban planning and transportation discussions- building more lanes will not solve the traffic congestion problems, we have to change people’s behaviors.

Jonathan on May 11, 2009, at 09:20PM – #47

I cant read all of the responses on this page, its too long and my time is precious. I WILL tell u why people live in downtown and still drive...

the bad traffic is comng INTO d-town in the morning, and OUT OF d-town at night. living inside downtown allows you to avoid traffic. there u have it.

...and thats why i love living in d-town, and still driving.

Benjamin Pezzillo on May 11, 2009, at 11:57PM – #48

This is more than just a Historic Core issue and larger than Adaptive Reuse.

Other portions of Downtown offer little to no street parking (Bunker Hill, Financial District) and areas like South Park must compete with events at the Staples Center and the Convention Center along with the lion's share of car thefts Downtown. In some of those areas, private lots are not as affordable as they compete with the epicenter of the business towers that consider east of Grand a no-mans-land and pay accordingly.

In my opinion, it would have been prudent for the city to proactively add a parking structure, with plans for more if successful, along with Adaptive Reuse through the CRA. But I think people moving into the Core will have to adjust to walking a block or more to get to their car rather than the door-to-door immediacy so common with other parts of LA. There are a ton of cheap lots near the Fashion District it seems and that borders the core on the south where the 'newest' buildings are coming online.

I do agree with the idea that of all places in Los Angeles, Downtown is the most livable sans car.

In our household, we actually moved Downtown after one of our two cars was stolen off the street in front of our Los Feliz duplex. Since we both worked Downtown, we decided we could afford a larger place with central air without replacing the lost car. That was three years ago. The FlexCar option was cool and disappointing to lose it.

We did add a motorcycle to our one car about two years ago which helps when we want to go to different places outside Downtown at the same time. It's an outstanding way to cut through gridlock too. We would likely add another car if one of us ended up working outside Downtown daily.

Andrea on May 12, 2009, at 02:44PM – #49

I moved downtown a year ago, and don't even have my car registered or insured anymore....it's been a 11 months since I last drove it. I bought a bike and I ride it everyday to work, or I walk.

Sandie Richards on May 13, 2009, at 08:56PM – #50

Well, this is a long thread, so good for you, dear reader, if you made it this far for my 2 cents:

The more transit becomes available, the more folks will get out of their cars.

And for those of you going from DTLA to Santa Monica, I highly recommend the #10 Big Blue Bus. It goes from DTLA down the 10 Fwy to West LA and then to Downtown Santa Monica. (Even those of you with babies! We used to love taking our toddler on the bus-- most of the Big Blue Buses board level with the sidewalk, so its easier to get on with a stroller.)

Can't wait til we have MORE MORE MORE public transit options!

Steven Chan on May 14, 2009, at 07:46PM – #51

Taking Metrolink is definitely convenient (I take it to/from Downtown L.A. as much as I can), but unfortunately, OCTA plans to cancel up to 59 bus lines, including all of the Metrolink shuttles and most of their express shuttles. Looks like it won't affect just Orange County residents. I've been chronicling the OCTA bus cuts, if you're interested.

But the good news is that they've just announced plans to widen the 5 freeway in Irvine.

Tiffany Hampton on July 24, 2009, at 08:30AM – #52

What a great article.

Please share this with the bizymoms Irvine community. http://www.bizymoms.com/irvine/index.php