Streetcar Project Holds Open House, Still Accepting Comments Online

Downtown's newest office wager:

"So whattya think will be operating first, the streetcar or Angel's Flight?"

Angels flight definitly

Does anyone know if they decided on whether the streetcar should run through the center of the street (as it used to) or by the curb (I think they were considering it running south along the easterly curb)?

When did the “couplet” enter the picture? This is the WRONG way to go. Portland and Seattle have much narrower streets with shorter blocks and the downtown streets are mostly one-way. Broadway MUST have both directions of our Streetcar line down the center of the Broadway. Ideally Broadway would be a pedestrian “Transit Maul” with only the Downtown Streetcar and busses allowed except for deliveries. This works and is very popular in Europe and even in Portland, but as a couplet. Let’s drop having one direction on Hill St and get back to making Broadway the route as well as THE Downtown entertainment and retile oriented Pedestrian Street. If the couplet is implemented it will be a failure and doom Downtown to a driving city that closes at dusk.

Interurbans: Your vision of downtown is EXACTLY what I am opposed to. You can see it in downtown Denver, where 16th Street has been turned into a giant shopping mall with a Starbucks on every other corner. "Hard Rock Cafe on this corner, next stop is Victoria's secret". We already have the Third Street Promenade, the Grove, and Citywalk. We don't need another fake downtown experience...particularly in the middle of downtown.

The couplet is important because it lets the rider/tourist know that they are not confined to simply one street. And we must keep auto traffic on Broadway (as opposed to turning Broadway into a pedestrian mall). We are a real, working downtown. I, for one, want to keep it that way.

I'd rather see both directions of the trolley on Broadway, instead of the couplet. Remember, one of the main purposes of the trolley is to bring new people to Broadway and the Historic Core. I'm not talking about 'Downtown experts' here, I'm talking about tourists and shoppers from the suburbs.

Most people's hesitation to coming Downtown comes from fear of getting confused and lost, and fears related to safety and cleanliness. People are not going to want to take a trolley one-way unless they definitely know how to get back. "Is Hill Street to the left or the right? What happens if you go the wrong way? Is it safe, or am I heading into Skid Row?" You may laugh, but tourists just don't know. You shouldn't do a couplet when there is a common perception (as there is in L.A.) that those side streets are not clean or safe.

The other problem with the couplet is that it deemphasizes Broadway. A couplet causes ambiguity about which street is the focal street in the neighborhood. Remember, all streets are not equal. In the hierarchy of streets, Broadway is far more important than Hill Street. In people's minds, Broadway should be the reference point.

Consider San Francisco. There is no ambiguity there: the F-line heads up and down Market Street, both directions. So does the Muni subway and BART. Everybody goes to Market Street, it is the safe zone. Once they feel safe, people then venture away, with the knowledge that they can come back to Market Street if they get lost.

Joel C: What you are proposing for L.A. sounds just like Denver's 16th Street Mall. Tourists stay on one street only, afraid to venture elsewhere. This is a mistake that Denver made and Portland didn't. Portland's streetcar serves a neighborhood, not just a street turned tourist destination.

Regarding people getting confused: Hill is one short block away. Maps will be posted inside the streetcar. When I rode Portland's streetcar, it took me all of 5 seconds to figure out how to find the streetcar going in the other direction. People are not as stupid as you think.

But all this just dances around the basic question: What is the vision for the historic core? If you want Broadway to turn into a generic strip of national retailers, then follow in the steps of Denver and run the streetcar up and down Broadway. If you want to grow a more unique neighborhood, emulate Portland and run the streetcars with a couplet (which emphasizes a neighborhood instead of only one street).

"We are a real, working downtown. I, for one, want to keep it that way."

Yes, lots of folks working in all of that empty space above the first floor these past four decades!

Once upon a time, I imagine that someone felt that a new Woolworths with it's long lunch counter was a faux experience. I am for whatever solution which will revive the historic theaters, even if they have to put Madonna's bustier on display in one particular front window. This alone could draw thousands of tourists to Broadway. Yes, they should try and locate that legendary, mechanical-looking contraption that got heisted in the great riot of '92.

Note to the L.A. Times: is there an idea here?

All i want is ALL the streets in downtown one way and less buses, that is the solution to ALL of the problems.