Been There on August 25, 2009, at 06:31PM – #5

Downtown dodged a bullet. This inept alcohol outfit spent big bucks for representation by Kagianaris Lew LLP and couldn't even end up going with the correct procedure. This is the outfit that was to tame a bad block?

I can just see the genius of Haven on opening day: does the front push in or pull out?

Yes, a bullet was dodged!

Jon on August 25, 2009, at 07:58PM – #6

5 months seems like an awful long time. Are there that may parties going through the approval process?

Caryn on August 25, 2009, at 10:52PM – #8

That ultra-tacky, fake-rock facade alone demands that something be done about Craby Joe's. A bulldozer and several sledgehammers may be just what the doctor ordered.

^ on August 26, 2009, at 12:07AM – #9

That's an awfully typical response to history in Los Angeles which is why we end up with the visual landscape that we do.

Dated? Bulldoze it over.... along with the fact that Craby Joe's was one of Bukowski's watering holes. Erasure of anything poorer-than-yuppie.

Brady Westwater on August 26, 2009, at 08:42AM – #10

The applicants did NOT choose the incorrect procedure. The applicants did everything what they were told to do by the City of Los Angeles. And the zoning administrator - repeated - apologized to them because they were give the wrong information by the city. She also admitted that the person who had given them information supposedly has a history of giving incorrect information to the public.

However, there are also precedents for doing it this way, which might be why they were told to do use this process (so that person may be unfairly accused) but the rules were for some reason - good or bad - changed just before the hearing.

What this really is, is just one more example of the total failure of leadership in this city to create jobs and develop a sustainable tax base.

Los Angeles has a far lower sales tax base than almost any city its size and far fewer jobs per capita than most other cities in the area - or nationwide. Los Angeles is also declining faster than almost all other major cities, with few exceptions such as Detroit.

This decision will also allow the heroin dealers who control that corner after ten o'clock every night to stay in business a little longer until the security of a late night business can drive them away.

Been There on August 26, 2009, at 09:42AM – #11

One correction, Brady: most of the dealers are dealing in crack after 10 pm, not heroin. Heroin leaves this area generally around 7 pm and moves to Gladys and San Julian, among other Skid Row areas. Some of the dealers stay in the Cecil and others just rent rooms there nightly during big welfare paycheck times. They work the street but are based in their rooms.

Yes, this is the Cecil that recently received an alcohol permit. That really helped, didn't it?

The old Crabby Joe's has been vacant for the last six months because the Haven outfit holds the lease and is just letting it sit there. If they proceed, it will be vacant another six months at least or a full year or more in total. These people do not care about the area, only about making money.

Gary M on August 26, 2009, at 10:19AM – #12

Been There, so why don't you also attack the variety of enablers to the drug and alcohol abuse? That includes the Cecil Hotel or any of the flop houses that maintain permissive guest policies. That includes the various social-welfare organizations that have been promoting their agenda for over 40 years, and whose very livelihood depends on the people they supposedly are so sympathetic about.

In other words, if too many of their clients (or customers) suddenly gain a normal, healthy lifestyle, their very reason for existence will disappear, along with their funds (from charities and government) and employment.

Seems to me you don't care about the area to a greater degree than anyone else. You're like one of those in Los Angeles City Hall who claim to be so concerned about the ailing condition of the city, but who are worried more about taxes being too modest than a permit process so burdensome and slow that new businesses are discouraged from locating within city limits.

Jon on August 26, 2009, at 10:29AM – #13

Aside from the Haven folks, who else was interested in that space? Of course they care about making money. But Haven making money will result in the area being safer. Compare that with the dealers in the area, who also "do not care about the area, only about making money." What good has come from the dealers' use of the area?

Been There, if you think that area should remain a "haven" for dealers/users, then just say so. Attacks against the Haven group (given the numerous conditions they've accepted/volunteered) make you sound insincere.

Does anyone else have an update re Hotel Cecil? It's been almost a year, I think, since it was last featured on blogdowntown: http://blogdowntown.com/2009/01/4008-hotel-cecil-restaurants-alcohol-hearing-a

chattycathy on August 26, 2009, at 10:32AM – #14

I'm concerned about a LA Times article today claiming a community association is against this proposed upscale bar. The spokesperson wants a cleaners or laundrymat or something. I want to know who this group is because it ain't me. I hope this upscale bar contributes to more upscale dining and nightlife, and I'm hoping the place will be a tribute to Bukowski. I've been a fan of his writings and poetry for years. He's always spoken to the working class man. And a tribute to him is in keeping with the Bohemian, artistic environment that Gilmore and Bert Green, and of course many others, have contributed to this Main Street area, historically, LA's first mapped street.

Jeremy Hansen on August 26, 2009, at 11:26AM – #15

The people involved in this are completely missing the point and also completely avoiding the plain truth about what is happening in downtown Los Angeles. As much as I would hate to see a place called "Haven" serving $12 organic martini's, the fact is that it's already too late to attempt to make these types of restrictions in downtown LA. The gentrification train has already left the station. I also find it interesting that this guy said he would open a burger place a few doors down. A few doors down would be a 24 hour Mexican joint called Margarita's. I frequent this place quite often. Oddly enough, their egg and ham breakfast sammiches are the shit. I wonder if their plans were to take over the whole block. Probably so.

The organization trying to stop the bar is doing it because they're concerned about the welfare of skid row residents who are trying to recover from severe alcoholism. What they're not realizing, or at least admitted is that any true skid row alcoholic wouldn't get within 100 feet of this place before some bouncer in a nice suit would shoo said alky away like a fly on a redneck's nose.

Chalk one up for the little people if they've successfully deterred this bar from happening, but the damage is done. If it's not Haven, it's going to be something else...like Hipsterdome or The Ironic or The Important People or something like that.

Skid row will be a thing of the past and that important history will be forgotten and the new breed will never even know it existed. Craby Joe's will just be labeled as that dive bar where drug dealers used to hang out and no one will ever understand how unique and special it was to so many people who needed to escape the hard realities of the low life.

Joe on August 26, 2009, at 12:40PM – #16

Well said, Jeremy.

I couldn't agree more.

Zach A on August 26, 2009, at 12:52PM – #17

Jeremy,

For what its worth the contemplated burger joint was two doors down in the other direction its a vacant store front. The Mexican food on the corner is really good.

Charles Lew on August 26, 2009, at 01:04PM – #18

Been There,

Im not sure what is to be gained by attacking us, questioning our intent or making statements that we "do not care about the area"

We have leased the location for over 6 months and we have moved as fast as possible obviously its not our intent to sit on an empty store front.

Finally Been There, both my partner and I attended law school in the immediate area (Loyola) and are active in the downtown community and have been since finishing school in 2001.

Charles Lew Kagianaris Lew LLP

Businessmandowntown on August 26, 2009, at 11:40PM – #21

The hypocrisy from this group of so called skid row activists is just appalling. They are those who live in glass houses and throw stones at others who are oblivious that those they throw stones at know they are being hypocritical.

Let's face it. The LAMP lodge was full of drug dealers with mentally ill and recovering addicts telling management that there was a problem and no one was heard until the shootings that occurred on the premises. How come Ucepp was not there calling for reforms?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lamp-drugs12-2009aug12,0,2981332.story

Where is UCEPP when tenants in the private not for profit housing providers such as Single Room Occupancy Housing Corporation are complaining about drugs and drug dealers on the premises? It is obvious that UCEPP is not really advocating for those they claim to advocate for.

We need to begin as a business community to question UCEPP and their targeting of business owners , for profit business owners, and UCEPP's reluctance to bring forth the issues that are happening in the skid row community with rampant drug sales and alcohol sales in the Single Room Occupancy Hotels in skid row, the private non-profits our hard earned tax dollars are paying for.

What is the real agenda that UCEPP has? Is it really about the denizens of skid row? They should be advocating for all, not just skid row residents.

The background of this so called organization is one of social model recovery. That means that they want to rid the community of drugs and alcohol sales , but the reality is that they do not go on the skid row neighborhood watch walks... this from a reliable source in the skid row community...their efforts are made to continue the status quo . As a matter of fact they oppose the skid row neighborhood watch walks. But why target the liquor licenses of legitimate businesses that control the substances , such as alcohol?

The Downtown community needs to question the validity of this organization in it's attacks against the business community and also need to find out what other groups are supporting them.

Visitor on August 27, 2009, at 12:02AM – #22

"It's pretty clear where the Fairfax group stands when it comes to "helping" the community."

And what do you do that is so selfless and generous to the community?

I hope you're not one of those activist types who talks a good game, but who, when all is said and done, makes a quick beeline out of the neighborhood for some safe and comfortable abode far removed (in Santa Monica, Huntington Beach, Northridge, around the Fairfax District, perhaps?) from the people in or near Skid Row that "do-gooders" love to shed tears for.

jonathan (living on Bunker Hill) on August 27, 2009, at 01:40AM – #24

I think, I'm 99 percent sure, that the exterior of Crabby Joe's was used in the film 'Angel's Flight' that was filmed in and about Bunker Hill in 1965. It's not available on DVD but Veoh.com has it in it's entirety, worth registering for free to watch it. It was mostly shot Guerilla style on the Hill and around Angel's flight when it was still by the third street tunnel. Has the first Marlboro man as the lead, a sexy female actress, and Rue McClanahan, of Golden Girls fame, as a flirty drunk married to another customer inside Crabby Joes.

Joe on August 27, 2009, at 01:56AM – #25

Can't those lofters and those getting off of work just go to the Association or that whiskey joint on 7th that only suits and USC bro's go to?

We need a low-priced bar for the non upwardly-mobile that isn't a wanna be dive like 107 filled with early 90s kitsch crap that even San Francisco doesn't want anymore.

We are lounge saturated, thanks. You can have your organic vodka from.... Hawaii and your stained glass conquistador imagery.

Jon on August 27, 2009, at 09:37AM – #26

So what are groups like UCEPP doing about purveyors of $2 malt liquor? So Mr. Lew isn't interested in helping the citizens of skid row. Fine. Is there still an argument that Haven would make the area worse?

Perhaps it's really a matter of for whom the area would be worse. The traditional residents of skid row, from their perspective, would be worse off if Haven in fact curtails residents' ability to conduct illicit activities or otherwise do as they wish (and perhaps recover from addiction, but at their own pace and on their own terms; or perhaps live out their wretched lives in whatever peace can be found on skid row).

To his credit, Mr. Hansen appears to be open in his position. It's not really a matter of "saturation" and keeping all purveyors of alcohol out of the area; it's about preventing the displacement of skid row residents. If so, let's talk about that.

I don't think the folks who support Haven are generally so heartless as to not care about the plight of those on skid row. Rather, we don't want skid row to remain an area of unimpeded illegal activity. The harder questions are where to place skid row residents and/or how to treat them where they are? Perhaps there's common ground here, but not if UCEPP's position is there's no better (feasible) alternative than the status quo.

I agree that the people of skid row shouldn't just be pushed aside (which is presumably the fear/concern over Haven). Are there any solutions most of us can agree on?

Jon on August 27, 2009, at 09:43AM – #27

Joe,

I don't think you'll find many people who think a low-priced bar on skid row is a good idea.

CarynHo on August 27, 2009, at 11:37AM – #28

Don't confuse me, CARYN HO, with CARYN.

Joe on August 27, 2009, at 12:45PM – #29

We need to be realistic at what we're calling Skid Row as these boundaries aren't unchangeable, even if the distinction is from block to block.

Does The Association market itself as a lounge in the heart of Skid Row? No. Is that block viewed at as Skid Row? Not anymore. Is Bert Greene a Skid Row-specific gallerist? No.

Addicts are going to be addicts, whether they're homeless or not. Drug and booze addicts aren't just homeless people.... they valet park their new Lexus just like anyone else.

Is no one willing to be responsible for what they put into their own bodies?

Jon on August 27, 2009, at 01:21PM – #30

That's a fair point, that perhaps we tolerate addiction by the wealthy but not the downtrodden. (Un)fortunately, in terms of quality of life in downtown LA, the addictions of the wealthy don't appear to be creating negative externalities of the sort associated with skid row. I don't think Rich Alossi was mugged by a guy who drives a Lexus.

Jon is right. on August 27, 2009, at 06:03PM – #31

I don't think anyone really cares about someone else's vices until they threaten their own sense of personal safety and quality of life. This is the difference between the addicted street people and the users of means. The latter tend to leave, and display their bad behaviors behind closed doors. And they have the means to support their own habits.

The former stick around and display their bad behaviors in public. Because they mostly are jobless, there is nothing to discourage them from being inebriated all day. And when they can no longer afford their habits, they are likely to do just about anything to cop a fix. They tend to impose their problems on others, and create problems for others.

This is the distinction between the two.

Been There on August 27, 2009, at 10:46PM – #33

Charles Lew, you've had the space for the last six months. Why haven't you at least put up bright outside lighting? Why wait until the booze starts flowing? You should demonstrate some concern about the block now or else step aside and let someone else have the old Craby Joes.

Six months is a long time for doing absolutely nothing, Charles Lew.

Jasmijn on August 28, 2009, at 07:00AM – #34

I did actually go to Craby Joe's just before we officially moved downtown. The bartender told us that the decision to close the bar had just been made. We danced to the jukebox along the length of that loooong bar, and then sat for our Miller Lites and potato chips.

I'm glad the MONA has their neon sign. It's a pity the bar had to close and then sit empty for so long. I wonder why they didn't just let it go on until they had the permits and everything needed to open it as whatever the new owners had in mind.

joe on August 28, 2009, at 11:54AM – #35

A story concerning bars and longevity:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090828/ap_on_re_us/us_bartender_s_last_call

lofty on September 08, 2009, at 03:55AM – #37

Anyone know a good place to get an A sign