Dave on September 03, 2009, at 11:03AM – #1

Can you give more detail about this comment?

"...Senior Lead Officer Deon Joseph spoke of the trouble caused by well-intended groups who come Downtown to pass out food on the streets."

As part of a group that hands out food, I would really like to know what sort of trouble we cause.

Joe on September 03, 2009, at 01:27PM – #2

"We tend to drive away from Downtown and forget that there are lives that we leave behind," said Trutanich. "We've got to make it more important that people remember there are people here, human beings that want to retain some sort of dignity.We tend to drive away from Downtown and forget that there are lives that we leave behind."

Such an empty statement.

Many of us live in the Zombieland of downtown and we don't drive away from anything. Citing that we need to "remember there are people here" from a politician rings worse than most of us who do nothing but co-exist with the problem. The problems of Skid Row have become institutionalized -- by Skid Row residents, by the LAPD and by the city. Empty platitudes only continue to blow gusts of hot air down 6th Street.

pb on September 03, 2009, at 01:32PM – #3

nice fabric

General Jeff on September 03, 2009, at 03:54PM – #5

To Dave(regarding the "trouble" caused by feeding the homeless),

As a community activist in the Skid Row area for several years now, And co-creator of the "Operation:Facelift/Skid Row" project which focuses on the cleaning up of the streets as well as painting fresh coats of paint and murals on the walls in Skid Row, what I have witnessed first-hand is folks such as yourself making the homeless dependant on "your" food. What if you only come one time? There is a saying that says...feed a man a fish, he'll eat one day, but if you teach that man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime ( or whenevr he gets hungry). Nobody is teaching the homeless folks how to fish.

Other issues include; the fact that most people and organizations that feed in Skid Row, don't bring trash cans. What are homeless folks supposed to do with the styrofoam plates and other cups and containers after they are done eating? Guess where that stuff goes? YOU brought that stuff, you should be responsible for cleaning up after you feed, don't just pass out food and drive off.

Also, the majority of the unwanted food, and clothing as well, ends up in the gutters and thus support the rat and roach infestation problem here(not to mention all the other health problems that this contributes to). Although recently myself and others have worked with the City to address this problem, the undisaplined feeding tactics still continue.

I could go on and on, but finally, a major concern is the folks that bring packaged food with expired dates to feed the homeless. I don't know if they are just "clearing out" their store shelves, but homeless folks have basically been eating anything given to them. We are trying to spread the word about how important it is to check for expiration dates on packaged food. Many folks have gotten sick at the same time. When this happens, we can be pretty sure it was from "bad food". How can poisoned or rotten food help the homeless?

We still have a ways to go with this and other issues regarding the lack of structure to feeding the homeless in Skid Row.

Please feel free to contact Blogdowntown if you would like to discuss this further.

Josh on September 03, 2009, at 04:43PM – #6

General Jeff, thanks for the intelligent and informative comment. I live downtown and see the same things you mention. The work you and your organization do is incredible, we have seen a drastic improvement in skid row in the past 5 years due to your efforts. I appreciate your willingness to educate the public and the homeless, as this is the only way to solve the problems accurately. We look forward to continuing to contribute to your organization.

Sandie Richards on September 04, 2009, at 02:29PM – #7

As a member of the Clergy Council for the Central Division (LAPD) I can report that the local religious leaders are working on a plan to help educate those who bring food to Skid Row. Here are some alternatives: 1) Give out water! Bottled water is a very good thing, esp with the kind of heat we've had. And, it's almost 100% guaranteed that all the bottles will get recycled.

2) Work with the missions. They provide healthy hot meals served under food safety regs. 3) If you aren't from Downtown, find hungry families in your home community; feed them.

Great to see this coming up again-- we need to do more to educate well-intentioned people.

Been There on September 06, 2009, at 10:40AM – #8

The Unity Fellowship Church (http://www.unityfellowshipchurch.org/site2009/) has weekly (at least) feedings in Skid Row. They are the ones with the white vans and sometimes set up on Sunday evenings at the Circle (Main and Third). They do not pick up the trash in the area of the feeding and they sometimes feature leftovers brought in by various members of the congregation to the earlier church services. How sanitary is that?

The church is led by Carl Bean. Perhaps Sandie Richards knows him and can speak to him about this situation.

Joe on September 06, 2009, at 07:37PM – #9

Why should missionaries care about food poisoning?

As long as they hand you some old chicken and remind you that it came from Jesus, their work is done.

Missionary work is not an expression of generosity but brainwashing.

ChattyCathy on September 07, 2009, at 06:52AM – #10

I'm going to tell you a sad story about feeding. This story starts at the Grand Canyon's south rim, on the most populated trail that has hundreds of tourists daily, where a mountain goat befriended the tourists. I remember this lone goat, who would climb up the side of the hill, and everyone ignored the "Don't feed Billy". All the rangers and locals knew Billy well. When I went a second time to the South Rim, the sign had been taken down, because Billy now depended on the tourist's food. The last time I went, there was a tragic story. One of the tourist's jacket got caught in Billy's foot, and when the tourist tugged on his jacket to get his coat, the goat lost its footing and fell down the steep cliff to his death.

Sandie Richards on September 07, 2009, at 08:35AM – #11

Thanks, Been There: I will follow up with the Unity Fellowship.

General Jeff on September 07, 2009, at 10:42AM – #12

To ChattyCathy,

Is there a moral to your story?

Please be careful and understand that some may view your "story?" as an equal comparison of goats/animals to homeless human beings.

If this was in error, please explain your position.

If this was supposed to be a sly attepmt at clever humor, any comparison between animals and humans can be deemed disrespectful, especially when the comparison involves homeless folks.

In all actuality, here in Downtown L.A. animals are treated better than the homeless.

Basically what I'm saying is, your "story" was offensive.

I agree, that it is a sad story about "Billy". But what does your story have to do with the homeless issue?

As a community activist, I always try to address homeless issues and I find this platform (blogdowntown) a viable outlet for healthy and relative discussion.

My concern is that you might lead people "off topic" and this is a most important issue to many people in Downtown.

Kelly GB on September 07, 2009, at 12:13PM – #13

In all actuality, here in Downtown L.A. animals are treated better than the homeless.

But some of -- too many -- of the homeless people behave not much better than the household dog or cat, urinating and defecating out in the open. Scavenging for scraps in trashbins, relying on hand-outs from strangers, and being about as useful or self-aware as a dog or cat---especially if it's hooked on drugs or alcohol. And then treating their condition, including bad smell and dirt, with as much nonchalance as the household dog or cat. Actually, cats keep themselves somewhat cleaner by grooming themselves on a regular basis.

However, I do think it's wrong for one to feel more humane towards animals than innocent humans. But the compassionate approach has been tried for over 30 to 40 years in both Los Angeles and San Francisco--particularly the latter. And what do we have to show for all of that? Homeless humans acting and living like animals in the wild, more chaotic and self-destructive today than what existed even during the 1930s, in the middle of the Great Depression.

General Jeff on September 07, 2009, at 02:57PM – #14

To Kelly GB,

You make some interesting comments which makes for healthy conversation. Thank you.

My response, 1) where are homeless people supposed to respectfully relieve themselves while being without a home or adequate waste dispossal facilities?

2) While it is true that there are lots of folks in Skid Row that are addicted to drugs and alcohol, understand that peole are addictied to drugs and alcohol all over the world. In addition to the aforementioned, all human beings are addictied to something; whether it be sex, gambling, food, television, money, shopping, cigarettes, etc. What is important and also frightening to realize here is that all the "programs", such as 12-step, AA, CA and NA that were designed to help addicts are old and outdated and have a limited track record to support their existence, yet the missions, non-profits and the so-called social service providers all continue to use these methods as their "first line" of defense, suggesting that this is their preferred method of choice for the last 25-30 years while the drug and alcohol problems have continued to grow to astronomical proportions.

In addition to those demographics, there is an equally high( no pun intended) number of folks that suffer from mental health issues, such as schitzophrenia( what the recent movie "The Soloist" was about). Over a long period of time, it appears as though many cities across America decided to send all their "unwanted" residents to Downtown L.A. where they ultimately ended up in Skid Row, also known as "the homeless capital of the world". Even though this is our problem now, it is not fair to lump everybody together, especially those that cannot fend for themselves. Even though they both need help, addicts and the mentally ill are two seperate catergories.

3) You made reference to "the Great Depression". I don't understand the correlation. With today's drugs being so much more potent, powerful and posessing such superior addictive qualities, there is nothing to compare there. The only thing that I see that is worthy of comparison relates to economics.

Also, what I've never seen nor heard, is how animals were treated during the Great Depression.

Finally, you may not yet know it, but there are a buch of decent, clean and normal citizens that live in Skid Row. This demographic ended up here mostly due to the economic downturn that the entire country has now suffered from. Many of these folks are currently suffering from depression and embarrassment and are in a fragile state of mind since having to move to Skid Row (mostly because people like you keep lumping them into the same catergory as truly homeless people).

Personally, I doubt that anybody living on the outside( outside of Skid Row), could accurately and consistently distinguish between all of the different demographics I have depicted in this blog. But even still, be reminded that there are so many more different catergories that an individual can qualify for. The people that fit into two or more are what the so-called professionals call "dual diagnosis" individuals. And obviously those numbers are big! For instance, the military veteran that is metally ill, an alcoholic and has contracted HIV is an example of someone with "dual diagnosis", even though there are more than two symptoms. This is the latest form of individual identification methods that are being used in Skid Row.

I ask that you all please try not to "lump" all homeless folks into one catergory. It truly makes a difference. Properly understanding the problem is the first step towards finding the right solution. Not just "a" solution, but the right solution. Together we can make this work.

Kelly GB on September 07, 2009, at 11:10PM – #15

You made reference to "the Great Depression". I don't understand the correlation. With today's drugs being so much more potent, powerful and posessing such superior addictive qualities

It's not just the nature of hard drugs of today. It's also (or mainly) the far different social and political nature of our times. We tolerate behavior in public that's both bizarre and reckless that we never would have accepted a few generations ago.

Police officers used to go around the streets of Los Angeles with paddy wagons to pick up inebriated bums. That has come to be seen as a mean and pushy tactic since the 1970s. So in our current age, if a person wants to let it all hang out -- literally and figuratively -- the feeling is who are we to judge? Who are we to say otherwise? If loitering all over the place and setting up squatter camps amidst a lot of sidewalk squalor are what make homeless people happy, who are we to spoil their fun and free will?

Over a long period of time, it appears as though many cities across America decided to send all their "unwanted" residents to Downtown L.A.

You're pointing to one of the solutions. If those cities have the gall and nerve to ship their homeless to Los Angeles, then Los Angeles should ship them right back.

And why should we feel guilty about doing that? After all, if this country's center of fortune and fame, New York City, has reportedly encouraged their homeless to leave that city, then why shouldn't Los Angeles copy a page from America's most successful and success-oriented town? Otherwise, is it because we're not good enough? Is it because we have to take a back seat to the Big Apple?

I remember New York City back in the 1970s and 1980s developing a reputation for being a noticeably dirty and unpleasantly chaotic city, squeegee men and graffiti all over the place. Now it's Los Angeles that has earned that dubious distinction.

Dave on September 08, 2009, at 10:26AM – #16

The trash we produce is something I have never thought about before and something to keep in mind. I am always looking for the pros and cons for handing out food/water on a weekly basis. Thanks for the comments.

Been There on September 08, 2009, at 12:24PM – #17

Dave, it's the trash and then the rats. Hang around a while after your next feeding and walk about the area. You'll see.

Ravi on September 08, 2009, at 05:03PM – #18

Yes, indeed. Mr. Trutanich could use a good PR person or writer to provide him with appropriate responses to press and media.

The human spirit to survive abhorrent conditions is tenacious. The problems that fuel conditions are many. The solutions are out there. There are many well intended visions that are temporary and the long-term solutions require broader scopes and approaches that can be costly.

There are many of use who live in Downtown and experience the homeless community daily. This is interesting that many condos are selling at $2M and nary a word is said about the community on the streets. This is an issue that does require dignity.