Susana Benavidez on September 11, 2009, at 03:33PM – #1

Hi Lisa

My name is Susana Benavidez and I've been living in downtown for about two years. I have two little girls and take the Dash (public transportation) in the morning to drop off my girls at school on 3rd/San Pedro and then walk to work at City Hall.

I'm an L.A. native and have always loved downtown so I may have had a higher tolerance for downtown before it got cleaned up by LAPD efforts and the revitalization movement of developers such as Tom Gilmore in the Hostoric Core.

That being said, I think downtown is very safe. I walk to pick up the girls at 5:30pm so in the Winter time it's dark by the time I get to their school. My advice is to always be aware of your surroundings. You tend to get a false sense of security once you've been living in an area for a certain period of time so you have to avoid that. When I walk alone or with the girls I always make sure I know who is walking behind me- and if I feel uncomfortable I will move over to the side where I am visible to traffic and wait for them to pass me by. I've had a couple of instances where I felt unsafe and I walked closer to a group of people until that person was ahead of me. Some people might call that paranoid but you can't risk your safety just to seem polite.

The great thing about downtown is that once you've been here for a while you start seeing the same faces and ultimately know people like the bus driver, coffee shop owner, vendors- by name; and they tend to look out for you. When it's dark or raining I have had several bus drivers pull over to let the girls and myself aboard even when it's not a designated stop.

There is a growing number of families downtown and I take that as an indicator of the safety of the neighborghood. During my daily commute I always see a police cruiser pass by at least twice on my way to work in the morning and back when I get home so that makes me feel safe (I believe that's one of the results of the Safer Cities Initiative).

Overall I feel safer living in a condo than in a house where someone can break in - and given the notoriety of L.A. people not knowing their own neighbors- no one even noticing. You should check out the neighborhood at different times during the day and get a feel for it. One last thing, downtown is made up of several neighborhoods such as Historic Core, Little Tokyo, South Park, Financial District, Fashion District, etc. You can always take a housing bus tour offered by the downtown bid downtownla.com and see which one suits you best!

Looking forward to welcoming another DT resident!

Susana Benavidez

Rich Alossi on September 11, 2009, at 03:58PM – #2

I love living Downtown and am an advocate. Still, I've been in a number of unsafe situations and it has severely clouded my outlook. The bipolar nature of safety in Downtown is plain for anyone to see.

Now, I'm not trying to scare anyone, just giving my personal assessment.

Just visit certain areas during the day and it'll be bustling, full of people and traffic and stores open; a few hours later, security gates are rolled down and not a single soul in sight.

I've been mugged, I've been threatened, I've been shoved. Being called "faggot" on an empty street with by a crazy thug swinging a chain at me and my husband isn't my idea of a safe neighborhood. Live/Work/Fear for your life?

Things are getting better in some areas and worse in others, but I still sometimes feel very unsafe walking around at night. We just bought Mace to use just in case.

Is that fair? I don't know. Some neighborhoods are better off than others. South Park's pretty safe (unless the Lakers win, but that's another story). Try the Financial District or Bunker Hill.

Living here isn't for everyone, and I'm starting to wonder whether it's for me either. I do love it, though, despite its flaws. I think one more incident like those stated above and I'm calling it quits.

Ruel on September 11, 2009, at 04:42PM – #3

Hi Lisa-

I've lived downtown for the last two years, and have had no problems so far. But Rich is right-- A lot of it has to do with the downtown neighborhood you live in-- one block can make a world of difference. We live in the Civic Center District, which is in the northern part, just a stone's throw from City Hall and the all-new Police Center.

I love living here.The galleries, coffee shops, and restaurants are just a block away from us. Sometimes on a weeknight evening we even go over to Little Tokyo for dinner or yogurt. I like catching the occasional movie at the Downtown Independent after dark. So walking around here is generally safe, as long as you avoid straying over into the sketchier areas.

And as for those stats in LA Life-- they can be really misleading. Take them with a grain of salt.

Russell on September 11, 2009, at 04:50PM – #4

Like the other comments have stated, apparent safety varies from block to block. I am a strong supporter of the historic core (where i have worked for 4 years and lived for 2), and have never feared for my own safety, but then again I am 6'-5". My girlfriend caries mace, but has never used it.

I have seen great improvements in the few years I have been here. Despite the economic climate and foreclosure crisis, downtown seems to be heading in a positive direction. I hope I am not coming off overly enthusiastic; once you live here you become a cheerleader for all things DT!

RobynA on September 11, 2009, at 05:00PM – #5

Hi Lisa,

I have lived in Downtown since 1997. I made the move to Downtown to shorten an unbearable commute. I first moved into a fabulous loft space in the Fashion District. It gave me great exercise to re-orient to an urban lifestyle instead of the suburban life I've lead my whole life. Your habits change. I have since relocated to Little Tokyo and crossing to the East side of 3rd Street is movng to a different community altogether.

The bonuses to Downtown for me are: * No commute. A 25-cent Dash ride gets me to work within 20 minutes. * Grand Central Market, Farmers' Markets, Broadway, the Fashion District, and Santee Alley have really opened my eyes to a whole new shopping experience. * Events and entertainment - many at night time. * Street noise drops immediately at 6:00 PM as the stores closed and commuters go home.

Although we should never jump at the chance to get in harm's way, you do have to have a sense of common street smarts. I do walk home from work at night. I feel safe. I've actually felt more anxiety about rats in the later hours than I have unsafe human characters.

Residents, professionals, students, the homeless, the visitors: exrcising tolerance to the whole blend is key.

Ryan on September 11, 2009, at 05:38PM – #6

I moved to the Historic Core of Downtown this past June. I love it in Downtown. I have never felt a connection to the city like I do here. Being here to witness it's revitalization and hopefully take part, is what makes all Downtown Residents feel a sense of pride in it.

Read what I wrote about the Laker Riots http://rhino-grafix.blogspot.com/2009/06/uplift-downtown.html

With that said, I'm cautious about letting my girlfriend walk around by herself alone, only because she is attractive and friendly which at times can be a disadvantage. I bought her a pepper spray just in case, but shes never had to use it. Where I live there are always questionable characters walking around but they only bother me for handouts (One asked for $15!) One guy threw a half eaten chicken wing at my girlfriend. But to be completely honest, you can move into what you think is the safest neighborhood and still not know what happens next door. At least in Downtown you are more aware and can be cautious and still enjoy living in the city.

Ginny Brideau on September 11, 2009, at 05:41PM – #7

Alex and I moved from West LA to Santee Court in 2004. We've moved a couple of times since then, but all different lofts (and now an apartment) in Downtown. Everyone above is right on the money. I love living in this neighborhood, and once you've been DTLA for a couple of months you can really develop a deep attachment (dare I say almost a cultish desire) for everything Downtown.

You'll start to notice that crossing a freeway is just something you do when you have to. All your friends will want to visit you, and they will want to know how and where to park, and you'll tell them "WTF, take the train". You'll find yourself going to more neighborhood meetings than you ever thought existed. You'll pick up and start using twitter to send out short messages about the fire truck that went by, or how long the Kogi line is.

You will start to know people by their first name, and their last name will be the name of the building they live in. Artwalk becomes the new "monthly" and you'll love it every time.

I like how I can hop a train or a bus and get to anywhere in Los Angeles, let along anywhere on the west coast. Woooo Amtrak.

Finally - Alex and I also have a little girl. Iolani is well versed on all the public art, fountains, and free cookies downtown. The central library is here, a handful of growing churches, places to wander.

You've got Broadway and the whole Fashion District for just about anything you want. Little Tokyo in all it's glory...a beautiful neighborhood with a growing and bustling nightlife.

The only downsides I would have to say is the occasional filming that just blows my mind, on top of the frequent filming that is respectful of the neighborhood; lack of competition for a decent grocery store (don't get me started on Ralphs); and that the LA Marathon jacks up the neighborhood once a year.

I'm noticing that I didn't mention crime one time....

Feeling pretty safe DTLA.

dave on September 11, 2009, at 06:45PM – #8

I've lived in the historic core for over a year. I'm a guy, not huge or anything and I walk my dogs every night. You do get to know everyone around including the homeless people and everyone for the most part is friendly. If someone is shifty you usually get a feeling right away. In any big city you are taking a risk if you go out late, have little awareness of your surroundings, get mixed up in some boy/girl fight (hotdog vendor in front of my building was stabbed this way a few months after I moved in), are pre-occupied on your phone with a huge purse hanging off your shoulder, have a habit of blacking out in public, don't look before you cross the street, jay walk etc.. With that said I'm moving out of downtown at the end of this month

Meghan on September 11, 2009, at 06:51PM – #9

I live very close to the financial district. I will venture in the surrounding blocks if it's not too late (before 9pm), but any further and I won't do it alone. I'll take a cab or drive. The only time I ever felt unsafe was on a Monday in the middle of the day there was a creepy drunk-looking guy on a bus bench next to my building who started masturbating himself and calling for me as I approached. I immediately turned around and told my building security and took another route.

James Hightower on September 11, 2009, at 07:22PM – #10

I covered this issue pretty thoroughly in a blog post back in May 2008. The thumbnail summary is that the crime stats are difficult to interpret because the recorded population may be only fourty thousand, but the daytime population is over four hundred thousand. Further, there are distinct communities downtown that suffer from distinct sets of crimes. SRO residents, for example, are exposed to an entirely different set of dangers (residential burglaries, assaults in the SROs themselves) than lofties (theft-from-vehicle, which presupposes that you have a vehicle to be thefted from) or visiting shoppers who have cash and goods overflowing their arms. This is not a local problem. Crime statistics are very difficult to do in a meaningful way that can be used for comparing one area of group of people to another. Projects such as the International Crime Victims Survey have shown that collecting meaningful comparative crime and victimisation data is extremely difficult. Add to this that Downtown is a moving target for researchers, and useful stats are even harder to come by.

In the year and a half since I wrote my blog post, things have only gotten better. There are more people out on the street at night, and less privacy for people wishing to commit street crimes. There are even more private guards than there were when moved here, and police patrols are very visible.

One last thing... I found an interesting paper written by Richard Peiser and Jiaqi Xiong back in 2003. Using 1997 crime stats, they found that Downtown Los Angeles was a safer place for a shopper than Santa Monica. 1997 was back when Downtown was "The hole in the donut", and the crime stats made todays Downtown look like a paradise of love and brotherhood, and yet a shopper with cash and an armload of expensive consumer goods was less likely to become a crime victim here in Downtown than in upscale Santa Monica, counterintuitive as that may be.

Karin Liljegren on September 11, 2009, at 07:41PM – #11

I've lived downtown for 2 years and the 16 years prior on the westside - Venice, SM, Westwood, Culver City, MDR.

I am completely and utterly obsessed with downtown. It is real, so full of richness and full of fun surprises. I feel very safe. I am a single woman and a part time single mom. I will always walk to any place anywhere - even out for drinks in the evening. Sometimes I take a cab home. Walking at night I am very conscious of which streets have development (which I steer towards) vs which are still a little empty. I am always aware of who is behind and front of me and my eyes always open. I think it is completely typical urban stuff though. In fact I would argue that I have felt less safe on the westside late at night on the streets because there is noone walking on the streets after dark. The biggest threat that I feel on the streets here is not crime - AT ALL. It is the amount of mentally unbalanced down and out folks that there are - some neighborhoods have more than their share. My concern is the unknown in their actions. 98% are just a little crazy but there are those few that act out unpredicatably. Some blocks have more than their fair share. In any event, these are the rare exceptions and not the norm. I agree with what everyone else said - it's SUCH a community and of all places I've lived in LA it is truly the most diverse, interesting, friendliest (YES, friendliest) and community oriented places - HANDS DOWN.

Rob on September 11, 2009, at 07:43PM – #12

Downtown is great. Living near in the Historic District near South Park we get our share of oddballs but we have 148 units in our building and most feel safe. There are police, security guards and the purple patrol everywhere in the Business Improvement District. Tens of thousands of visitors come Downtown every night for concerts, theatres, restaurants, clubs, bars, cafes. People who live here are generally...friendlier, in better shape (they like to walk), have a sense of adventure, have a creative side to them, enjoy the arts, are more civic minded and environmentally conscious. We have Democrats, Republicans, Independents...and if you like Communists...there is even a shop for you (Not condoning it..stating a fact). The best part is it is changing for the good everywhere. The best restaurants are also moving into Downtown. Most of DT is shining these days and only getting better. It also has the best architecture in all of Los Angeles. Rich..saying "one more incident and he is calling it quits" is probably a guarantee he will be gone. Most here have a much better experience than he indicates and really do love Downtown, warts and all. If you like safe and steady, move to Irvine...a bit boring but a nice place in a different way.

Lauren on September 11, 2009, at 08:28PM – #14

I've lived in DTLA (Little Tokyo) for over 3 years now. I'm a single female and chose this area because I felt comfortable walking here. In the time that I've lived here, downtown has only gotten better as more people and more stores move in. There's a visible security presence including LAPD and private security.
I've only felt uncomfortable walking 2 times. One was when I went down a less developed street in the middle of the day. The other was when I walked over the freeway overpass on Alameda after midnight (admittedly not one of my smarter decisions).
My point is, if you're aware of your surroundings and choose the areas where you walk carefully, you can certainly be safe well after dark. Here in Little Tokyo, the streets continue to be populated until at least 10 or 11pm on weeknights and later on weekends. I'm thrilled with my choice to move here and will only be moving when I finish my own dissertation and have to seek a job in another city.

James McMath on September 11, 2009, at 08:44PM – #15

I live between Skid Row and Little Tokyo and have never felt unsafe. I am a 6 ft tall male of medium build. I have walked through Skid Row at all hours not wishing to make a big detour after coming home from a night out in the core. Occasionally I get hit up for change and a couple times was accosted in a more aggressive manner but just ignored them and kept walking and they faded away. Since SCI I think many of the petty street criminals have stopped coming to DT. The remaining homeless appear to be the primary source of crime but I rarely find them physically threatening. According to Captain Blake Chou of LAPD Central Division, downtown has one of the lowest crime rates in the entire city. Not sure how that statement is backed up by statistics but in anycase DT has that great transition feel to it that makes it exciting but somewhat unpredictable at the same time.

Naturallawyer on September 11, 2009, at 09:38PM – #16

I've always felt comfortable downtown. I moved here in 2003 and always choose walking over driving. I've passed some suspicious looking characters, but in 6 years of walking daily to/from work (including very late-night hours) I've never had an incident. I've lived in downtown apartments/lofts in City West, Southpark, and at Cesar Chavez Ave., and always worked in the financial district. I've walked over to the Historic Core at night for Art Walk, and regularly walk to sporting events at Staples Center. I've felt comfortable walking alone from Southpark to the Cathedral at night. Like Robyn, I'm often more anxious about the rats than the people (there's one particular building downtown that I avoid because of the rats hanging out under the sidewalks).

I love downtown, and although I have admittedly grown some thick skin toward pan-handlers, I have never been assaulted. I don't go over to the Historic Core much at night (unless I'm craving Rocket Pizza Lounge), but it's not because of safety concerns. I would guess that the chances of facing crime are greater as you travel east, but I'll let the Historic Core residents speak for themselves.

I would encourage anyone interested in downtown not to let perceived unsafety close them off to the possibility. Some areas are more well-lit than others, and some places don't have metal garage doors that slide down over the storefronts (in fact, some restaurants never close). Drive around the city at night and you can decide where you'd be comfortable (and the housing prices are great all over the city these days).

Jasmijn on September 11, 2009, at 10:56PM – #17

Hi Lisa! Good idea, considering a move here :)

I've lived here about a year and a half. I feel safer here than I did in Van Nuys and even parts of Westwood. I've walked home from the Red Line after dark by myself, and felt safe. I've walked back from the Orpheum at 10 pm with my son, and felt safe. I've never had reason to feel differently. But that's also because -- as other have pointed out -- the usual situational awareness is called for. Some streets are better lit and wider and less scarey-seeming than others, for instance. We all need to keep an eye out for potentially unsafe situations and try to avoid them. . . but that's true anywhere. Crimes happen in other places than here, too, and more often in many.

I love living here. I've never been happier about where I live than I am now, and I've lived in a lot of places in different cities (and countries). I rarely drive anymore, and I know more people in my neighborhood (from Mark the Butcher to Mr. Andre the Shoeshine Man and Rasmuss the Baker) than I have anywhere else (and I'm not a particularly sociable person myself, LOL!). No, it's not perfect, but for me it's closer than I've found anywhere else.

One suggestion: consider a "test drive." When we were first discussing moving here, we looked through Craigslist and found someone in the Pacific Electric building who was going on vacation and wanted to sublet his flat for 3 weeks. It gave us a chance to try out the neighborhood, as well as the practicalities of living here from doing groceries to laundry and public transportation possibilities. And it was cheaper than a hotel!

nanorich on September 12, 2009, at 05:54AM – #19

Lived here since 1997.

Safety has never been a major concern....except I tend to be aware of my surroundings, as one would on any street in Los Angeles.

(however being over sixty and therefore invisible, helps)

Will be sorry to see Rich go.

Bud Coffey on September 12, 2009, at 06:20AM – #20

I'ved livedd @ B'way & 9th for a little over 2-years and have no probelm with safety. I walk home from the Music Center @ night when ever I can and subweay to and from the Hollywood Bowl in the summer and have never had any problem. I do several shows a year at the theatres along Broadway which puts me out on the street fairly late and again have never had any problem. It's a great place to live and work.

Real Resident on September 12, 2009, at 07:51AM – #21

I think the question is what areas to avoid, and I say the closer you are to skid row, the less safe. Also, wherever the SROs are located you will find clusters of crazies at all hours. I think 5th and Main is the legendary center of crackheads and crazies.

I'm a female and use public transit and must wait at a bus stop before 5am. I observe and get approached/solicited by all manner of derelicts... for change, drugs, "private company". Once an LAPD officer actually pulled up and grilled me on what I was doing because he saw me there every day; I yelled back, "Waiting for the bus to take me to WORK!" It seems the Metro stops are mainly used as meeting points for the depraved (they don't actually board the bus) and I'm really fed up with it. And random men in cars continually stop and roll down their passenger side windows expecting I will approach them, and each time I tell them to get lost.

Vero Queero on September 12, 2009, at 10:09AM – #22

I'm a native Angelino, having lived my first 23 years in Highland Park, then 2 in North Hollywood, 16 in West L.A. and the last 2 1/2 here in City West (which some consider--like the L.A. Dying Times--Westlake, yeah right). I have a car but commute via public transportation to Burbank M - F. I walk daily a few blocks to the Red Line at 7th & Fig, walk often down 7th St. regularly and occasionally around South Park, Historic Core & Financial District to take in a movie at Laemmle's Grande 4Plex at night. Granted, I'm not out that often but the most dangerous things to happen to me are having been almost hit by cars, while I'm in a crosswalk and I have the green light. (Yes, most were on hand-held mobile phones). I've been approached a couple of times to buy drugs and by prostitutes. One evening on 7th St between Bixel & Lucas, 3 young guys were walking towards me and I was alarmed, heart racing. They passed by with no incident so it was all in my head. I feel safe 99% of the time and I am loving Downtown more than I ever expected.

Captain Blake Chow on September 12, 2009, at 11:27AM – #23

Eric:

Good post. From my chair, Downtown LA statistically has the lowest amount of crime than any other division in the City- by a few hundred crimes this year alone. Crime is down 7 percent from last year and over 30 percent from 3 years ago. That being said, I recognize that the feeling of safety isn't tied to crime statistics. Things that make people feel unsafe have much to do with other issues like panhandling, graffiti, trash, drugs etc. So our focus has also been on those issues.

I think Downtown LA is the best community anywhere in the City of LA. I wish I lived downtown.

Captain Blake Chow on September 12, 2009, at 11:44AM – #24

In 2008 there were 6 homicides, 38 rapes, 552 robberies and 525 agg assaults.

In 2007 there were 7 homicides, 33 rapes, 468 robberies and 596 agg assaults in Central Division.

The website is also calculating crimes per resident and only using 40,000 or so residents. However as many can see, Downtown LA has at least 10 times that many people that work, visit, shop, eat etc. In regards to the statistics posted by http://lalife.com/Central_City. They are using 2004 numbers and they even got those wrong.

Li on September 12, 2009, at 02:26PM – #28

Rich, I'm really sorry you've had to deal with all that. I hope you don't leave the neighborhood because you add a lot to the community.

James McMath on September 12, 2009, at 05:11PM – #30

I find Rich's experiences so odd because I've never seen or experienced anything remotely like that after many, many nights of walking around alone at all hours. (Maybe I'm being naive). Rich did these incidents occur recently or a while back?

Jenny on September 12, 2009, at 06:33PM – #32

And that's not even adding the daily slog of whatever names I get called just walking down the street with other guy friends or my husband.

I'm assuming you're referring to slurs regarding your sexuality?

There is a strange streak of both machismo and territorialism found among a lot of street-hardened males in the African-American and Latino community that can easily lead to a desire to trash strangers who appear to be, or who in their own mind seem to be, gay. Add to the mix the odd form of Tourette's Syndrome that various homeless people exhibit on a daily basis, in which they yell out the first thing that pops into their mind (sort of like what very young kids do), and you're a walking target.

The fact you rather casually and comfortably describe the guy in your life as your "husband," means you're perhaps looking at the reality of the culture all around you -- like it or not -- through rose-colored glasses. In other words, you may be a bit similar to those very wealthy people who don't think twice about just how different they are even when they're visiting a more mixed- to lower-income community. And so they're the ones who will find themselves walking around town oblivious to the fact their wallet or purse is hanging around in full sight and they're often parking their Lexus, BMW or Mercedes out on the street fully unlocked---with a pile of shopping bags from Rodeo Drive sitting in the back seat.

Main St. Dweller on September 12, 2009, at 08:48PM – #33

In Rich's support, I think the fact that he resides so close to the SROs on that strip of Main and those who hang out daily around there, means he has more exposure to and a heightened awareness of the problems there, not simply "looking through rose colored glasses". How many other commenters on this topic have to walk this stretch everyday?

I live near there myself (2 yrs.) and as a pedestrian, I must daily pass by groups of the "sidewalk squatters" and their associates, in various stages of intoxication and agitation. Sometimes they try to provoke me into engaging them by shouting vulgarities or stepping directly in my path. But since I am female, I guess they are reluctant to physically threaten me in broad daylight.

The things that help me cope with this segment of the population is to completely ignore them; not acknowledge their words or actions. And by wearing an iPod I am spared their nonsensical and disturbing commentary.

Bert Green on September 12, 2009, at 09:56PM – #34

"The fact you rather casually and comfortably describe the guy in your life as your "husband," means you're perhaps looking at the reality of the culture all around you -- like it or not -- through rose-colored glasses."

Um, no, Rich and his husband are married. That was legal before Prop 8. Their marriage was upheld by the courts.

Chris on September 12, 2009, at 11:09PM – #35

Bert, thank you (and I am a straight female, BTW). Rich, I have been in DT 3.5 years and you are a real asset to our community. I hope you are around for a long time. I have lived in many places, including overseas, and I can tell you the people in downtown are exceptional. I lived in West LA and it was a little crazy there. Plus the ones who aren't crazy on the westside are habitual complainers. Who needs that?

Jay on September 13, 2009, at 12:30AM – #36

I'm so sad to hear about those incidents Rich. I've been living downtown since 17 (I'm 21 now) and haven't had any safety issue like people wanting to fight me or being called any racial slurs.

Been There on September 13, 2009, at 09:08AM – #37

Jenny, Rich shouldn't have to straighten up his act in regards to his orientation no matter how uptight or ignorant are the people around him. For you to suggest that the violence he has suffered is in anyway his fault indicates some degree of homophobia on your part.

That "machismo and territorialism" you mention won't change until Rich and others like him continue to live as they want and should in the face of it. Shame on you for suggesting that Rich is responsible the violent acts of mean and stupid people.

Jenny on September 13, 2009, at 11:59AM – #39

For you to suggest that the violence he has suffered is in anyway his fault indicates some degree of homophobia on your part.

I was describing the behavior of the rough, tough, street-hardened types who I'm assuming have been the ones harassing pedestrians like Rich Alossi.

Also, the ultimate form of homophobia is displayed by people who think someone is homosexual when they're not. For instance, if Rich is walking around in public without displaying any obvious signs of his sexuality -- not holding hands with his husband or wearing a T-shirt that says something like "Gay Pride" -- but others still assume he's gay, that is the very definition of being far too conscious of, and therefore probably bothered by, the existence of homosexuality.

Rich, if you provide greater detail on the negative encounters you've suffered, that would be very revealing on how accurate or inaccurate my and anyone else's assumptions are.

I'm guessing most -- or all -- of your problems haven't been caused by non-homeless people, well-dressed people, well-educated people, women (instead of men), children (instead of teenagers)? And since there aren't too many "rednecks" in downtown, I'm also guessing the obnoxious types who've challenged or insulted you have been of Latino or African-American background?

And, Been There, the idea that people "should live as they want" has been applied for quite awhile to almost any behavior imaginable. The notion that the rights of people deserve major consideration (and a lot of benefit of the doubt, no matter what) is a big reason that the sidewalks of cities have become like newer-day versions of the Wild, Wild West. Sidewalks full of over-the-top behavior that either crosses the line into what in the past would have been considered unlawful or what is merely a tiny fraction away from that.

Been There on September 13, 2009, at 12:10PM – #40

Twist it around anyway you want, Jenny--you still clearly feel that Rich is somehow responsible for the bashing. "Sidewalks full of over-the-top behavior" and "the notion that the rights of people deserve major consideration" are comments that suggest you need to deal with your own personal homophobia.

You take us all back to the time when judges blamed women for their own rapes because of what they wore and where they went.

In a way you are adding to the bashing of Rich, Jenny. He's been battered enough. He doesn't need more from you.

Li on September 13, 2009, at 01:07PM – #41

Rich, if you provide greater detail on the negative encounters you've suffered, that would be very revealing on how accurate or inaccurate my and anyone else's assumptions are.

Why should he? What difference does it make? It sounds like you're trying to blame him for being victimized. Being assaulted is unacceptable under any circumstances for any reason.

Jenny on September 13, 2009, at 01:47PM – #42

"Sidewalks full of over-the-top behavior"

And you don't think strangers harassing Rich with certain slurs is over-the-top? If so, Been There, then you are the one who needs to worry about homophobia.

What difference does it make? It sounds like you're trying to blame him for being victimized.

What difference does it make? A lot!

The lack of greater detail is a big reason you're misinterpreting my words to mean I'm blaming the victim. If Rich is being harrassed for merely walking down a sidewalk, no matter what, then that reflects just how much over-the-top behavior exists in downtown Los Angeles. And I'm not even referring to people who are out to steal his money, credit cards, iphone or whatever. People out to mug him or anyone else.

If my words are going to be twisted and distorted, I might just as well say that I believe the people who are complaining about problems involving the homeless, panhandlers, muggers and taggers (and film crews, for that matter) should never have moved to downtown in the first place.

Clearly on September 13, 2009, at 03:23PM – #43

Jenny doesn't know how to make a valid point.

And that's a fine sentiment to end on in a thread about feeling safe living in downtown.

Rich Alossi on September 13, 2009, at 04:07PM – #44

Somewhere along the line people's comments got taken out of context. I think someone interpreted Jenny's "over the top behavior" comment as being critical of how I and my friends may have acted while walking down the sidewalk - though I think she's really referring to the over the top behavior of the persons doing the threatening etc. That's how I chose to read her comment, anyway.

I don't feel the need to go through each instance of harassment or violence I've experienced, nor do I feel the need to defend my actions, since I've never done anything to provoke anyone into threatening me on the street.

But since you asked, here's the scenario that scared me the most: Jake and I are walking through the Civic Center on our way home from Little Tokyo one evening, passing the CalTrans Building. We walked through the plaza with the neon because it's one of my favorite things to see.

As we left the plaza and walked on the sidewalk past the entrance to the CalTrans garage on Main Street, a guy was leaning up against the wall smoking a cigarette. He asked us if we could spare a dollar. "No, sorry."

"Why not?"

"I'm not going to give you any money." We keep walking.

"Why?" The guy starts walking behind us.

"I don't need to tell you why." Still walking.

"It's because you're fucking faggots."

"Look dude, I don't have any problem with you."

"Fuck you, faggot." The dude brings out a chain and starts swinging it at us as we're trying to get away from him as quickly as possible. He continues yelling stuff like that at us for another 30 seconds or so until we got across the street near Pitfire.

Of course we call 911, but we're put on hold. Central Div. direct line, same thing. We found the BID security guys and told them about the incident and left it with them.

Is that detail enough for you?

BTW, each separate instance that I refer to in previous comments wasn't necessarily involving a homeless person (though several are). Those jails that you see off the 101 in Downtown have a lot to do with it, I'm sure, since our neighborhood has been a dumping ground for criminals forever.

John Smith on September 13, 2009, at 05:23PM – #45

Lisa,

I clocked two years downtown after living in at least ten different areas of the city in the past 20 years (from Malibu to Glendale). DTLA is indeed like most major city urban cores. Left for dead by urban sprawl, bought cheap and developed for wealthy young-ish loft-seekers fancying themselves as urban pioneers. Detroit, Cleveland, Ft. Worth, Los Angeles ... all the same. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but you have to ask yourself what you want now, and what you are willing to wait for to save a few dollars in rent. DTLA isn't that much cheaper than far more intriguing neighborhoods in the southland. Ultimately DTLA will be the Santa Monica promenade (if you want to wait ten years). But if you want that now, just move to Santa Monica.

As for safety I had similar experiences as Mr. Alossi, including random physical assaults. Once the sun sets, the game changes and it becomes quite creepy and scary. (This is coming from someone who now lives in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and NEVER has felt frightened wandering after dark.)

In short, walk around during the day, then walk around at night with your family. Trust your instincts.

J

Jenny on September 13, 2009, at 06:40PM – #46

I think she's really referring to the over the top behavior of the persons doing the threatening etc

Thank you, Rich.

To not understand that "over the top" refers to all the examples of bizarre, unpleasant or threatening behavior displayed by either homeless people with mental disorders or tough, hardened convicts out on parole (and sometimes the two groups are one and the same) is a case of very poor reading-comprehension skills. If a person can't figure out something as obvious and basic as that, I have to say duh! to them.

I should add that "over the top" reactions from strangers passing strangers out on the sidewalk or street, which can occur at a hair-trigger moment, are not too different from what spawned the large riot between Latino and African-American inmates in the state prison in Chino several weeks ago. Some of those same violent-prone types are locked up in and then paroled (or dumped) from the jails right next to the 101 Freeway, as mentioned by Rich.

JM on September 13, 2009, at 07:57PM – #47

Here are my 2 cents. I've always felt safer Downtown than anywhere else in Los Angeles and I still do. Been here four-and-a-half years now, one in South Park before it was developed and the rest on Bunker Hill. The only place that was unsafe was the club on Grand and Olympic, and that's closed down. Like anywhere else in the world, you just have to be cautious. City living is great, but it has its ups and downs. Some days I love the city, some days I hate it, but I don't regret living here. Right now, there's nowhere I'd rather be.

JOSH on September 13, 2009, at 09:47PM – #48

Hi Everyone, thank you Rich for being so forthcoming about these terrible incidents. I think this type of open communication is the best way to resolve problems in the evolving downtown community.

Please allow me to share my experiences. Have lived and worked in downtown for 5 years, I am a straight, white male, 6'1", and commonly described as "mean and lean" looking. I regularly walk my 2 pitbulls late at night, very early in the a.m., and in the middle of the day. During the 80's and 90's, I was a very successful repo-man in Detroit and Chicago. I am very well educated , know street smarts, intimidation tactics, and how to beat the shit out of anyone who touches me.

All that being said, I too have received numerous assaults similar to the situations Rich described. Many have occurred in broad day light, on busy sidewalks, with my dogs and my girlfriend. My first reaction is always to completely ignore these aggressors. They will shout "Faggot! Pussy! Dog Fucker! Whatcha gonna do? Fuck You! I'm gonna fuck your girl!" and so on. I pretend like these idiots do not exist, as if I can not hear or see them. I show no signs of fear. I never give these morons any indication of fear or recognition. And this works 99% of the time.

Unfortunately, I have been physically attacked several times. The aggressors will try to block my path, shove me, one guy started throwing glass bottles at us, and another drunk in a wheelchair intentionally ran over my dogs. When someone physically touches me, I will stop and confront them while brandishing pepper spray. I have never sprayed anyone, but I have punched, kicked, and shoved these derelicts. I never did anything to deserve a verbal or physical attack, I ignore them until they hit me first. I am not advocating violence. I encourage everyone else walk and act as they please. If someone attacks you physically, do every possible to fight back and get away.

Regardless if they are homelessness, addicts, mental, or whatever, these derelicts will do anything to intimidate the strong (Rich and his hubby). Downtowners, please do not live in fear, together we stand up against ignorance and violence. Thanks for reading this.

em on September 13, 2009, at 10:58PM – #49

I lived in downtown (near Staples) and felt relatively safe for 5 years. Until one evening walking home from Ralph's around 8pm on a Sunday evening, I was opening the door to my apartment building and was pushed from behind by a purse-snatcher, splitting my eyebrow to the bone on the half-opened door. The video camera above only caught the man running away. I left downtown that same month.

Naturallawyer on September 13, 2009, at 11:16PM – #50

Let me preface what I'm about to say by stating my belief that each community within downtown is valuable and has something to offer each of us. I've walked all over this city, but there are certain parts of downtown that I've only visited during the day.

It occurs to me that asking whether downtown is "safe" is a bit like asking whether California is "safe," but obviously on a smaller scale. The answer to both questions is, "well it depends on where you go." That is why some commenters have lived here for a long time without incident, while others have lived here a short time and faced multiple assaults. Some places in downtown are dumping grounds for criminals, addicts, and the mentally ill, but they have other things to offer. Other places are home to very high-end restaurants full of business people and others on their way to the theatres on Bunker Hill. Other places are full of young people attending concerts and sporting events. Other places are rather isolated from much activity at all. It's simply unfair to generalize.

While I get the sense that some people despise the fact that young professionals like me are buying lofts and living in apartments downtown, I moved here accepting the larger community for all its issues (homelessness, major filming projects, traffic, etc.), but I have lived in smaller sub-communities that fit me. If you want to live downtown, you've got to figure out whether a certain community within downtown is for you. If you want to live with a greater sense of safety and peace and quiet, that is available downtown. There are also more cutting-edge and artistic places downtown with some other issues, and you can live in them or visit them while living elsewhere. In short, don't let horror stories scare you away.

Jennifer on September 14, 2009, at 08:06AM – #51

Lisa - I've lived and worked on the North side of downtown near the Cathedral for 6 years and really love living here. I'm an LA native and prior to living Downtown I lived on the Westside - MarVista and Westwood. Being a single women I didn't change my views on personal safety just cause I moved downtown from MarVista - which means that I don't walk around at night on lonely dark streets - I wouldn't do this in Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, Westwood nor do I do this Downtown. As many of the other comments have stated a city has it's ups and down and the problems that Downtown LA have are not just systemic to Downtown Los Angeles - they are systemic to any large urban city and I would think that if you live in San Fran city proper you would be more than prepared to live in our wonderful Downtown with all it's ups and downs. I wish you well.

alexandra on September 14, 2009, at 09:48AM – #53

i'm a native new yorker who has also lived in san francisco. i have lived on 6th & main in DTLA for over 4 years. i have seen things happen (details upon request). things have happened to me (ditto). this is an urban environment, so i expect (any and all) things to happen. when i walk outside, i pay attention. i'm still here.

Jacob on September 14, 2009, at 10:39AM – #54

Rich and I are probably extra (retroactively) sensitive to these upsets as a consequence of living on the second floor of our building, with our window facing Los Angeles St. at 6th St. This intersection has always been a small hotbed for stolen goods vendors during the daytime and drug deals at night. However, for over the past month, the drug dealers have been using lookouts who echo loud "Heads up!" calls at all hours of the night, up and down the street. Sometimes it's one lookout. Sometimes it can be up to five.

Previously, we dealt with the outside noise -- most notably, sirens (Los Angeles St. seems to be a major corridor for LAFD & LAPD) -- by sleeping with ear plugs and swearing to move to a higher floor or a light well in the future, and recommending a newer building (with double-paned windows) in Little Tokyo, the Financial District, or South Park to our friends considering a move to Downtown.

Unfortunately, this recent development is more than just noise. It has affected our feeling of safety -- despite several restaurants and bars outside our door, hundreds of residents in the neighboring buildings, and the Central Division station a block away. It's the reason we bought pepper spray, and it's the reason we don't find ourselves going out as often at night, unless we take friends to Little Tokyo, a Grand Performances event, or Art Walk.

Nevertheless, our lease is up in about 5 months, and we'll probably still find ourselves in Downtown... just in a different area. Aside from all the benefits of community and convenience, living in Downtown LA is a sustainable option, and rental rates have become quite competitive!

David Kennedy on September 14, 2009, at 12:38PM – #55

I moved downtown in 1997 and left in late 2008. I felt extremely safe. We had three small children. During late 2006/early 2007, I took our twins for walks in their double-stroller late at night to get them to sleep. I walked everywhere in the evening, except Skid Row (which seemed sensible). We lived on Broadway at 8th. I never had a problem. But, I think the key was I avoided Skid Row. I definitely have observed a distinct and very positive change in the number of people out and about in the evenings.

My wife who grew up downtown didn't feel as safe as I did. But, she was a young woman and much more cautious.

I can sympathize entirely with Rich's negative feelings. I'm sure I'd feel the same if the same happened to me. It is very regretable.

Ankur on September 14, 2009, at 01:40PM – #56

I personally haven't had a any trouble, outside of pan handlers and random drunks. (I live of 6th/spring)

Although, have had random people "store" things under my car time to time when I park on the street, under my car. That has only happend twice, lucky I didnt drive over the objects both times.

meow me on September 14, 2009, at 11:04PM – #57

i am sorry for what happened to you and your husband.

i live in downtown pasadena not downtown la but attend classes on saturdays at ucla extension on fig and second via metro trains.

i often walk around in historic cord, bunker hill, and little tokyo after classes with friends. i agree with other posts on here.

one street can mean a world of difference. while broadway might be a true urban mix and safe but one block east on spring st. might not be.

most homeless people in downtown are mentally disable and you often just need to walk away and ignore them. downtown's so much nicer than 12 years ago (my first time in the historic cord). i was shocked by what i saw in fornt of the Rosslyn hotel; a bunch of people (homeless?) standing around in front of the hotel and SHOOTING up under the bright southern california sun.

now days downtown is mostly safe and most homeless livingg in tents are done in the hostoric cord, spring, and main streets. just be careful not to venture into skid row and any area outside of east of broadway and 10 st.

Erik on September 14, 2009, at 11:34PM – #58

Darn it! It's a bit late right now, but I'd like to share my observations of downtown L.A. (DTN) as I remember it from 1988-1995 at 4th & Main (Barclay Hotel) and environs, later this week.

Benjamin Pezzillo on September 16, 2009, at 12:02AM – #59

The most important thing we can do as a community to increase our safety is to report all crime to the LAPD.

While I greatly appreciate the work the Business Improvement District security do, it is essential that community residents and business owners understand making a report to BID security is NOT the same as making a report the LAPD.

As anyone familiar with the LAPD knows, police deployment is driven by crime statistics. Thus, if crime is not reported to the LAPD (or 'absorbed' through BID security reports never passed on to LAPD), it is not accounted for in LAPD's system and areas that have crime do not get the resources needed to address community safety.

Be sure to take it a step further with the LAPD and ask for the Divisional Reporting number (or DR) in a follow-up contact. This is the official number associated with the crime report and ensures that the crime is accounted for in the LAPD's CompStat (Compare Statistics) methodology of policing.

If you know a crime has occurred, insist that the LAPD make a crime report. Do not allow the LAPD to 'downgrade' a crime to a lesser offense. For example, entering a premises with intent to steal is Burglary (a felony) not Petty Theft (which can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor).

Internally, police officials are heavily pressured to keep crime statistics low. While we all hope such pressure does not lead to poor decision making by law enforcement officials, human nature tells us that when the boss yells we tend to make certain results are produced one way or another. If you encounter an officer unwilling to investigate a crime or take a report, get their official Serial Number and make a Personnel Complaint with Internal Affairs against them for Neglect of Duty.

Additionally, if you are the victim of crime and a suspect has been identified and charged, be certain to follow-up with the City Attorney or District Attorney so they are aware the victim wants justice pursued. If you do not feel you are getting satisfaction, go to your elected officials with your issue and ask they get involved on your behalf.

The more this is done, the more that criminals will learn Downtown is not a collection of random people who don't care what goes on, but a thriving community invested in its own well-being and willing to do the hard work necessary to correct years of neglect.

Joe on September 19, 2009, at 07:54AM – #61

Lisa:

Think of downtown as a big expensive Tenderloin. Drugs are in abundance here, despite seeing a couple of white people with expensive strollers out during the day. Pot farms in lofts and hard street drugs galore. When people get discharged from the Twin Towers jail, they head straight for Broadway, pissed off at the world.

Downtown is dirty. Really dirty. If you want to keep your windows open, you will get a constant stream of dirt on your stuff. Pet and human urine cover the streets. Not all pet owners pick up their dogs' feces.

Another rub is that you won't get the quality of food that SF has to offer and you'll have to leave downtown to do any kind of decent shopping, especially for clothes and food. Locals are going to cry that that's not true, but the reality is that the food downtown is mediocre at best. It's getting better with places like Bottega Louie but it has a long way to go. You would think that with as many Mexicans in LA, that the local Mexican food would be stellar, but it too is mediocre.

It's not cheap, it's far from pretty, and it often feels like part of an experiment in both lifestyle and urban planning, hence the gross, corporate charmlessness of LA Live -- an un-downtown destination for suburbanites. There are few places outside that you want to hang out. Pershing Square is one of the ugliest plazas designed and there isn't any green area that dog owners haven't claimed as a litter box. Most people are too lazy to go to Elysian Park as they can't walk there in 3 minutes from their loft and their fake-green consciousness prevents them from driving such a short distance.

The best parts of downtown: the Central Library; empty streets at night for bike riding; some of the food in Little Tokyo; redcat and a couple of the cultural institutions like the Disney Center and Moca; small theaters like Company of Angels; rooftop views of LA and the snow capped mountains in winter; and the bus and subway system that can get you out of downtown.

Bert Green on September 19, 2009, at 05:19PM – #62

Keep in mind here, people, that "Lisa" does not live in San Francisco. She claims to live in the "Bay Area." People in San Francisco do not say that, only people in the suburbs of San Francisco use that term. To even ask the question "Is downtown safe" deserves the answer "no," because anyone who asks that question is not an experienced city resident, but a suburbanite, and nothing we can tell them will convince them that it is the place for them.

There is really no fundamental difference living in central San Francisco from downtown Los Angeles in both quality of life, crime, etc. I've lived in both and personally prefer downtown Los Angeles. But I am not inclined to try and convince anyone else.

los angeles locksmith on September 21, 2009, at 01:43PM – #63

Los Angeles has its crime just like any other city in the USA. You just need to be careful and be smart especially at night. Make sure you lock your doors at night and invest in some good sturdy locks. You should always carry a cell phone with you in case of an emergency and try to pay attention to you surroundings. Like any other city Los Angeles can be dangerous but just use some good judgement and you will be safe.

Jammond on September 22, 2009, at 09:50PM – #64

"There is really no fundamental difference living in central San Francisco from downtown Los Angeles in both quality of life, crime, etc. I've lived in both and personally prefer downtown Los Angeles."

San Fran has an odd provincial quality about it. It's like the attractive, popular young girl who, because she was always praised and hugged, never learned to progress to the next level, to get beyond her narrow comfort level. Some of that is symbolized by things like the rather cutesy, small-townish (and strangely unsophisticated) nature of www.sfgate.com.

However, the generally cooler, more invigorating climate of coastal California, which includes areas like San Francisco, does offer a certain advantage.

A World of Difference on September 23, 2009, at 12:58AM – #65

The differences are almost endless between "central" SF and DTLA, to the point that the only thing similar is concrete and some buildings. SF is a long established city, with distinct neighborhoods of unique flavors. DTLA is a burgeoning experiment wedged between freeways and a concrete wash. Downtown is the Tenderloin with pieces of SOMA, the Financial District and Oakland. If only DTLA were MORE like SF, then we'd have ample places to buy great foods (the Ferry Building puts LA to shame), Pershing Square would have the chance to function and look good like Union Square, you'd have a more diverse mix of people walking & biking around than the loft-livers and the have-nothings.

Lisa, wherever you are, you should know that there is a population of downtowners here in LA who are far more provincial and defensive about this neighborhood than SF will ever be. Your best bet is to come down for a couple of days, scout it out, imagine your normal life here and see if you feel it, including mundane things like buying the food you want, shopping for clothes, etc. DTLA has far to go.

Dennis Smith on September 23, 2009, at 09:59AM – #66

It is interesting how people will cite the expensive and upscale Ferry Building Farmer's Market as a symbol of San Francisco's enduring urbanity when, in reality, it has only been open for six years. In the fifty years previous to 2003, that area of the waterfront was a benighted and desolate place, obscured under the grim shadows of the hulking Embarcadero Freeway, the "freeway to nowhere" as it was called.

Ironically, it was only the devastation of the Loma Prieta earthquake that set in motion the demolition of the Embarcadero Freeway and the revivification of Embarcadero Boulevard, allowing for the splendid pedestrian experience that now stretches past the yacht marinas over towards that ballpark that changes its corporate affiliation every few years.

Aaron on September 23, 2009, at 12:26PM – #67

To A World of Difference-- Ever hear of Grand Central Market? I actually like that we have a large market accessible to the working and middle classes (for over 90 years) rather than a glorified rich-man's Bristol Farms.

Chad on September 25, 2009, at 02:11PM – #68

I had my bike stolen today, Friday September the 25th 2009 at 11:30pm in front of 811 Wilshire Blvd. I was only in the building 15 mins and whoever you are cut my lock off.

This is in a "good" part of Downtown.

Karma will get you thief. If karma does not, I will if I ever see you on my bike Downtown. This is a promise.

White woman's bike, Schwin.

World of Difference on September 25, 2009, at 03:15PM – #69

Yeah, Aaron. I've heard of CG Market and occasionally go there. Am I impressed by it? No. It's merely a local, serviceable option. I want good bread, not Wonder Bread. CG Market is not great, by any means, except for the booze options. Check out Mercado Municpal in Sao Paulo or most normal working class open air markets in Mexico City.

And if you live in downtown LA, in a loft, services for the working / poor class aren't really on one's list of priorities, are they?

Guest on September 11, 2010, at 12:54PM – #70

I lived downtown for three years, am a girl, on 5th and Broadway - one of the worse-off areas, and I moved because I didn't feel comfortable walking at any time of the day or night, when previously I felt comfortable walking any time of the day or night in my hollywood neighborhood.

One time I came out my front door and some crack lady completely hit me in the face, for no reason. The men, homeless and non-homeless spanish speaking guys seemed to follow me and yell out things from across the street frequently. I never once walked the neighborhood without some guy yelling something inappropriate at me. Something that hasn't happened to me in any other place but downtown la.

Was a little much for me - I had to move back to Hollywood in order to enjoy my favorite past time of going for a walk.

It is a wonderfully rich culture of downtowners - the first community I've ever lived in in that just walking around, you see people you know, which is really nice. But dealing with the following and yelling people was just too much for me.

Hope this helps.