Vanzant on September 24, 2009, at 12:54PM – #1

I take it this is a non-nedominational Christian church? I may check this out, south park welcomes you!

seb on September 24, 2009, at 12:56PM – #2

Not another theatre gone church, we got plenty of those on Broadway and Hollywood blvd.

David Kennedy on September 24, 2009, at 02:58PM – #4

It would be interesting to get some clarity from Jesse Ross as to how he defines the "community" and what constitutes making a difference in the neighborhood.

Elisabeth on September 24, 2009, at 06:58PM – #7

Great article! Yeah Jesse and Shelley!

Noe on September 24, 2009, at 09:46PM – #8

Are they going to pay taxes or this going to be another tax-free cult that gradually seeps into what constitutes moral, normal and "right" for all people?

Don't we have enough churches, especially downtown? And haven't they caused enough harm, e.g. Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angeles: the largest dollar amount paid to families of sexually abused children at the dirty hands of Catholic priests?

nanorich on September 25, 2009, at 06:00AM – #9

Why are evangelical wannabe mega churches referred to as nondenominational?

I really think it would be nice for once if these self promoting preachers would actually be honest of what part of fundamentalist principles they actually believe instead of speaking of their churches in the most deceptive ways possible.

Caz on September 25, 2009, at 10:33AM – #10

I find it interesting that people are so quick to jump up and criticize when people do what Jesse and Shelley are doing here. Here are some people who want to reach out to others and bring hope. Whether you believe in Christianity or not, at least praise them for wanting to reach out and help people. Not every church wants to evade taxes and deceive people. Before you criticize what you THINK they could be up to, find out the facts first.

nanorich on September 25, 2009, at 10:54AM – #11

Well...when someone with zero ties to the community...claims to want to serve that community...

in an area with a large gay community....

and spends a fortune advertising an nonexistent church....

maybe some people might want to use their critical thinking skills before turning over their spiritual needs over to guy they no nothing about...

Desiree on September 25, 2009, at 10:57AM – #12

I am excited about this church and I appreciate anyone who can leave a comfortable life in the suburbs to reach into the city. To say there are too many churches in Los Angeles would be as ridiculous as saying there are too many places to shop. Having options on where you share your beliefs is what makes this country so great. The church's website and their statement on love is inspiring to me. If more people took this stance there'd be less trouble in the world.

Vanzant on September 25, 2009, at 11:18AM – #13

A masters in theology at APU is nothing to sneeze at, a school like this isnt the type to breed cults, I applaud the effort. I am curious if they will put chairs in the general admission area or if theyll utilize the seating above.

The only quibble I have about downtown churches is they sometimes attract bums looking for handouts...which can distract from actual churchgoers wanting to get the most out of the message/experience, especially if theyre schizophrenic. That is why I sometimes go to Pasadena for church. I am all about helping the poor, im poor myself, but people who have a genuine interest in spiritual growth is what Im looking for.

Noe on September 25, 2009, at 11:35AM – #14

I'm exhausted by how much god and church we've allowed to influence the US and no, I will not "...praise them for wanting to reach out and help people." That help comes with a price. Missionaries of all kinds, under the guise of offering "help," are only trying to convert the emotionally fragile to believe in what they do: the bible.

Jesus may have died for your sins, but keep it to yourself. Stop preying on the poor and uneducated to bolster your congregations.

Bravo, nanorich.

When is the town council meeting to ban a new church? Or do we only have a voice when a new bar wants to open?

erikweho on September 25, 2009, at 03:27PM – #15

Sorry, but this venture reeks of 'Devide & Conquer.' Leave downtown for those who do not judge!

Eve on September 25, 2009, at 04:07PM – #16

Erikweho, downtown is full of many DIFFERENT people. Including those with open AND closed minds. I understand where you are coming from, but your comment leaves a fascist taste in my mouth.

John Smith on September 25, 2009, at 08:33PM – #17

Lovely, more nutbag Christians. Terrific.

Anthony Guerrero on September 25, 2009, at 10:07PM – #18

I'm pretty stoked when anyone puts themselves out there and just goes for it. Good on you Jesse and Shelly! No matter what people say, whenever they hear the word "God" it strikes a feeling. And whenever they hear the word "Church" it usually strikes up a bad feeling. But my hope is that people would actually experience the church for themselves before they judge or form an opinion. Give it a try folks. One Love.

John on September 26, 2009, at 11:48AM – #19

Better yet: find / try / experience / share "love" on your own without resorting to church or religious doctrine. Love doesn't need a jesus or a church.

Natalie on September 26, 2009, at 08:55PM – #20

Jesse and Shelley, Step forward with sincere and open hearts. The Lord will do what He will do. I am encouraged by the strong responses to this new work. It reveals the opportunity for people to develop relationship in a way that it doesn't seem they've experienced. I pray for those with open hearts who celebrate diversity and believe in love and justice to discover something new and true about those things they are so passionate about. Something that will enhance the flavor of their lives and get rid of that bitter aftertaste of whatever they had last. Whatever it was, it doesn't sound so good.

Vanzant on September 26, 2009, at 08:58PM – #21

Wow, I guess this is why they say never bring up politics and religion. The people who are against a new church on this blog seem really bothered/upset about it...as if it directly affects them. I only go to church a few times a year but I've never felt a hatred for it as some of the people above seem to do. Seems to speak to some underlying issues..one thing to be agnostic but to actually hate on religious people & their institutions without knowing the individuals...seems very ignorant. Let everyone live their life how they choose...and not to join the chorus but if you've been molested by a priest don't take it out on all religions & all churches! Although I cannot relate to what you guys went through a few bad apples does not speak for all of religion. And that is mainly isolated to a few catholic priests, christian non-catholic pastors like these have not had the same stigma.

loveandhatela on September 26, 2009, at 09:41PM – #22

I think only time will tell- Churches are like businesses- the customers/consumer or in this case- the church goers will show up or not. Low attendance and no donations= closed church!

Im a non practicing catholic (yeah im gay- but i was never molested by a priest- but i am a sinner in the eyes of the church so i wont support and be a hipocrite), but i still believe in god and a higher power. I just believe you dont have to go to a "church" or service to speak to and understand god.

God is almighty and hes supposedly everywhere and anywhere at any time and we can talk and pray to him- and thats what i do sometimes :)

Faith and religion is a very personal and individual matter, i think. We all have free will and the ability and right to make choices for ourselves,what best suits us.

I respect all religions and beliefs as long as i am respected as well. We all dont have to agree, we can agree to disagree.

Eve on September 27, 2009, at 12:19AM – #23

Well said, loveandhatela. WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE. So simple, yet so profound.

creativeandblessed on September 27, 2009, at 12:26AM – #24

I live within walking distance of L.A. Live and I look forward to being part of this church. I spend a lot of money attending concerts at the Nokia club, staples center and other places at the L.A. Live. People go to extremes to attend and support their favorite artist.
Well Jesus, here we come…. it’s about time…Here at L.A. Live we are ready to glorify and praise you!!!! You are my ultimate celebrity, Artist and Love……
We are blessed to have Jesse and Shelley two young faith filled people who want to risk and come and bring the word, the Truth and the Life to this glorious city. May the Lord bless Pastor Jim and his wife as they go forward to fulfill Gods purpose. I will pray for you and our City….Viva Los Angeles……

nanorich on September 27, 2009, at 06:55AM – #25

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2007/10/video-these-are.html

Jesse Ross has a history, by the way, using ringers and shills to promote his point of view...as seen here. (at the link above)

You also might be interested in how totally dishonest he is with regard to finding people on the street on Melrose, for goodness sake, attacking the "the homosexual agenda"

Ever heard in the Noble lie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie

The next time you see this guy affecting his hiphop stance, ask him if he will performing too many gay marriages.

Noe on September 27, 2009, at 11:19AM – #26

Vanzant:

When does religion just stay within the confines of a church and amongst its practitioners?

Look how religious moralizing has polluted government in this country, at nearly all levels. Why is "In God We Trust" STILL on US currency?

Watch how Christians routinely post themselves on Broadway, shrieking words of their god in an act of intimidation, handing out pamphlets encouraging a change at salvation.

It's pretty loathsome, you have to admit. Churches don't celebrate or encourage diversity, they encourage homogeneity under the guise of fear.

Noe on September 27, 2009, at 11:31AM – #27

Thanks for the video, nanorich. Jesse clearly has an agenda to continue Christian pollution against gays. It's obvious. He couldn't find one gay for his video to talk about his own experience? More like he deliberately avoided it to present an overwhelming "voice of the people."

Melrose: I've done casting on Melrose. The reality is that no one who lives in LA hangs out on Melrose. They're all tourists. Just listen to their accents.

Aaron on September 27, 2009, at 01:30PM – #28

Thanks for that video. Sounds like just another anti-gay church not interested in truly exploring the moral issues behind their agendas. It's this new type of soft, backdoor gay bashing that the Christianists resort to (in order to sound "hip" for the youth they're indoctrinating) that is extremely dangerous and very revealing.

stephanie freeman on September 27, 2009, at 04:39PM – #29

No matter what people say, Jesse & Shelly are stepping out in FAITH and doing what GOD has called them to do..

Found Out on September 27, 2009, at 05:52PM – #30

"Jesse & Shelly are stepping out in FAITH"

Oh, Stephanie, you capitalized every letter in faith? I....I....can't breathe.

The burning question in the video is "what do you think about homosexuality?" Then they managed to prowl Melrose without turning up one gay or lesbian person. They must have been on the part of Melrose not in West Hollywood.

Here's what I think about Jess and Shelly--they are idiots and bigots. What a sorry addition to downtown.

Rev Sandie Richards on September 27, 2009, at 08:11PM – #31

We're still here, haven't left, trace our roots back to the first Protestant sermon on record in L.A.(1854); Welcome, welcome, welcome to our newest church neighbor! New churches starting up are more evidence of the success of Downtown L.A.

Looking forward to serving our neighbors together! By the way, Jessie, give me a shout at First UMC Los Angeles: firstla.org

And best to all our neighbors, whatever your faith tradition.

Jesse Ross on September 27, 2009, at 08:41PM – #32

Wow, lot's of interesting comments. I don't feel like I need to defend myself because none of the negative comments are true - but I do understand that there are good reasons why people are skeptical of "Christians". History is full of people doing things in the name of God that has nothing to do with him at all. And I am personally very sad to see that Christianity has been bedfellows with politics/the religious right/etc. Its not at all representative of what it means to be a follower of Christ. His message was good news, that real love changes everything. (Side note: that video is completely random people we found in 30mnts who were willing to give an opinion. Sorry we didn't get any that you liked). Live Church LA is not here to shove our beliefs down anyone's throat.

neb on September 27, 2009, at 08:56PM – #33

Don't let the hypocrites keep you from checking out the downtown churches. Yes, the church is full of them because we are all hypocrites at some level. And there's always room for one more.

But do go with an open mind and listen for a few weeks before judging. Listen, learn and keep looking until you find a church that allows you to experience the unconditional love of God, the ability to love others, and the opportunity to serve your community.

Know that God has never, ever given up on you.

Round Trip on September 27, 2009, at 09:49PM – #34

So, Rev. Sandie Richards, "welcome, welcome, welcome" even if they beat up gays and lesbians? Would you also welcome someone who trashes blacks or Methodists?

Shame on you.

MZ on September 27, 2009, at 10:33PM – #35

"New churches starting up are more evidence of the success of Downtown L.A."

I agree. These zealots see dollar signs now. They will ruin this blossoming community with their bigoted idealogy. They're only interested in this neighborhood because of the money that is attatched here. If they were really interested in the downtown community, they would open their doors on Main and Sixth. Let them have L.A. Live. I won't be spending my money there.

KS on September 27, 2009, at 10:53PM – #36

"Leave downtown for those who do not judge!" "Lovely, more nutbag Christians. Terrific." "Here's what I think about Jess and Shelly--they are idiots and bigots. What a sorry addition to downtown."

Blogging gone wild. The judging seems to come primarily from the anti-Jesse group. In an attempt to relieve frustration with the obvious mishandling of how gays are handled by the christian church...the opponents are knee deep in their own hypocrisy. This "us vs. them" perspective is so tired. Anyone have an inteligent opinion of how a non-judgemental Jesus follower could make peace with the gay community? Most Jesus followers I know are perplexed by this topic and are embarassed by the bigotry and exclusion of many christian leaders. It would be progressive if a thoughtful response could enlighten so many who are following this conversation. Love the energy and passion though...inspiring :)

Joe on September 28, 2009, at 08:15AM – #37

Why does anything under the aegis of religion always seem to evoke sympathy (if not pathos)? "Ohh, leave us poor little believers alone..."

We've seen a few good examples of Christers recently and their work in the name of Jesus:

Hijacking a plane in Mexico City... "for God"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,548540,00.html

Kidnapped and raped an 11 year old, having 2 kids with her, and forcing her to live in a tent in his backyard, "often referenced God"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-09-14-garrido-God_N.htm?csp=34

and super-believers, the Westboro Baptist Church

http://www.godhatesfags.com/contact.html

http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20090925_Week-953-Soldier-List-jacm.pdf

Many Christers say, "oh, they're just fanatics," but as Stephanie astutely pointed out, fanatics are "doing what GOD has called them to do."

Joe on September 28, 2009, at 08:28AM – #38

Jesse:

If you're so sad about christianity entering politics, why make a video on a constructed "random" survey about gays -- an increasingly obvious and familiar rallying point for christians, and about perpetuating the "other" (the gay). In a gesture of talking about diversity, this focus only serves to splinter and polarize.

Why not make a video about love: all forms of love?

The gesture is a calculated one.

loveandhatela on September 28, 2009, at 01:59PM – #39

I agree with Joe

And I dont think they are against "ALL" Christians,they are just against you :)

Conflict is drama and that's what gets you attention and then you hope that leads to having a thriving church. Im gay and i watch and listen to Joyce Meyers, she seems real to me.

It be interesting to know what kind of turn out you had at your service this past weekend.

I sure would like to see your church's financial records- to see how you spend donations and maybe tmz or consumerist or gawker should do some digging to see what secrets and sins you have..mmmmm oh yeah :)

Aaron on September 28, 2009, at 04:05PM – #40

Okay, I've thought about this for awhile. Jesse I want to give you the benefit of the doubt as a new member of this community. But understand that many gay people are still hurting from the sting of Prop 8 and the other anti-gay amendments across the nation that are tearing gay families apart, offered in the name of Jesus and in the name of "protecting" families.

I'm willing to listen. I want to hear straight from the horse's mouth what your attitude is towards the gay community.

I probably wouldn't even be asking this except that you produced a videotaped interview with people on the street about it. I mean that's like producing a video on race in America and only asking white people their opinions.

Seeing the scorn our community has received from the Christian community, often done in the name of "love". Rick Warren, who is known in our community as "Fred Phelps in a Hawaiian shirt," indirectly attacks gays for being who they are but under the guise of "loving" them. These actions are two-faced at the very least!@

Specifically, what does your ministry believes is the "cause" of homosexuality (as the question was posed in your video), and I want to know what your ministry thinks of Gay Unions (Civil Unions, Gay Marriages) and if your ministry supports maintaining legal recognition of these unions or if your ministry will be funding campaigns to have those legal rights taken away.

Finally, I want to know if gay men and women in committed same-sex relations will be allowed to become a part of your congregation or if they will only be allowed to attend services (like Saddleback Church) but not be allowed to oficially join the congregation.

These are genuine questions that I am putting forward in respect and eagerly waiting on your answers.

Joe on September 28, 2009, at 04:56PM – #41

Is Phyllis going to be a guest speaker?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7xslG5MJjU

Thilo on September 29, 2009, at 01:18PM – #42

Jesse: Are political views not all grounded in one's worldview, and that of a Christian grounded in scripture? How do you see a separation and compartmentalization of the core beliefs of a man? What are your views on homosexuality and embracing them as members? As for many of the critics, you really don't have much philosophical basis for your comments, nor much fact. If you levy an accusation, cite the source. Arguing against other Christians while trying to name Jesse is ridiculous. Should we attack your Atheistic beliefs by citing Hitler and Stalin, Pot and Zedung? Really. Silly.

Stewart on September 29, 2009, at 02:04PM – #43

Pastor Ross if you read this REMEMBER, don't let non-Christains define your call. And even more importantly don't let "Christains" refine your call. In other words Pastor Jesse, don't get into vain philosophical or political debates that only lead to strife and bitterness. It will only pit you against the community you were sent to serve. Speak the truth in love, and may the God of Heaven and earth bless everything you and Shelly put your hands to.

Thilo on September 29, 2009, at 02:24PM – #44

2 Corinthians 2:14-16 (New International Version)

14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?

Stewart: LOL! Vain philosophical??? phi⋅los⋅o⋅phy   /fɪˈlɒsəfi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fi-los-uh-fee] Show IPA Use philosophy in a Sentence See web results for philosophy See images of philosophy –noun, plural -phies. 1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct. 2. any of the three branches, namely natural philosophy, moral philosophy, and metaphysical philosophy, that are accepted as composing this study. 3. a system of philosophical doctrine: the philosophy of Spinoza. 4. the critical study of the basic principles and concepts of a particular branch of knowledge, esp. with a view to improving or reconstituting them: the philosophy of science. 5. a system of principles for guidance in practical affairs. 6. a philosophical attitude, as one of composure and calm in the presence of troubles or annoyances.

How could this be vain??? It's the core of all belief, and if Christianity isn't a belief and system, WTH???

Stewart on September 29, 2009, at 03:48PM – #45

To any of you reading this that took offense to my use of the word vain in reference to philosophy you have my sincere appologies. In the proper context philosophy can lead to great findings. However, in the context in which it was used it should be plain that a discussion of philosophy or politics or physics for that matter is at best vain. Vain herein after described as:

1 : having no real value : idle, worthless vain pretensions 2 : marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful, useless vain efforts to escape 3 archaic : foolish, silly 4 : having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : conceited synonyms see futile

Now then to my point, when the birth of a new church is introduced to the community in which it is there to serve philosophy polotics and all other non-Jesus matters (for Jesus is niether a philosophy or politician) ought not be the center piece of discussion for that church. There is but one Christ who is the head, and He is more than able to keep young Pastor Jesse in check.

Thilo on September 29, 2009, at 05:16PM – #46

Stewart: 1:Churches do not serve philosophy, they act according to one. As such, philosophy is the cornerstone (such as "who is Jesus" and "what does a Holy God require of a sinful man")on which it rests. Our philosphy is Jesus, the person. The philosophy is what differentiates the Gospel from heresies. Thus, since a philosophy is the difference between Heaven and Hell, it couldn't be more useful. 2:If Jesus kept all those who claimed his name in check, there would be no Mormons, JW's, or Jonestown. Wise scriptural council from knowledgeable brothers is most useful. 3:Advising one not to take direction from reprobates is of course wise, but to advise one not to take council from brethren is reckless and leads to arrogance. 4:Lastly, this new pseudo-new age syncretized gospel is as Paul said, no Gospel at all. After Paul started riots and was flogged, stoned, whipped, and suffered every kind of persecution due to the OFFENSE of the Gospel, after the Apostles one and all (save John) were slain brutally for the OFFENSE of the Gospel, one needs ask:"why did they all get murdered for simply loving people"??? No! They were killed because this Gospel is a stench of death to those perishing, and they were hated as their Master said they would be. Anyone who tells an evil man that he is evil will receive scorn, anger and undergo attacks, just as the Church Fathers did.

Now the new user friendly pseudo-gospel says "don't judge and love everyone". I ask, since in these churches the divorce, drug addiction, pornography, fornication, and every other evil occurs at an indistinguishable rate from that of the rest of the world, are we loving them? Telling people all is well as they slide down toward the damnation of the Last Day is the epitome of lovelessness. Jess, my friend, I say to you "take up your cross. Pick up the blood soaked baton of the Apostles, Ignatius, Polycarp, and the thousands of others and preach the message Peter preached on day 1"! "Repent and be Baptized, every one of you". Do so in love, not pseudo-drippy sweet feel-good emotion, but the true love that sees a coming Judgement of the Righteous One, and calls out for repentance, the ONLY means to salvation. And yes, among other things, Jesus was a philosopher- the greatest one even to live among us.

nanorich on September 29, 2009, at 05:58PM – #47

Shills and ringers argue with each other.

Noe on September 29, 2009, at 06:05PM – #48

There's nothing better than when someone out-Jesus's another -- in other words, what much of religion is about.

"No, no, no... I KNOW what Jesus meant when he said..."

"NOOOOOOO... what Jesus told ME that meant was...."

"Oh, my dear brother, how silly and ridiculous you are in your interpretation. My homeboy, Jesus, wrote directly to me to explain that passage in Neanderthal 3:14."

"Oh, really? Well, Jesus called me after my pilates class and before I converted two people who just foreclosed on their house -- what messes they were -- and he confided in me that your teachings are way wrong."

"Dude."

Thilo on September 30, 2009, at 07:25AM – #49

Noe: Gross misrepresentation. Straw man. This is far too easy, you seem brighter than that. Why not take an honest shot? Nano: No legitimate comment? Ad hominem? That's it?

Thilo on September 30, 2009, at 07:47AM – #50

BTW- Noe and Nano: This is an in house discussion. Your input is akin to Jerry Falwell commenting on a discussion between two homosexuals on how best to advance the gay agenda. LOL! If you coul, at least try to say something relevant and within the scope of the discussion. : )

Round Trip on September 30, 2009, at 09:04AM – #51

Is it possible to bring back the lions? We have an endless supply of Christians to throw them to. Plus, downtown needs the family-friendly entertainment.

Maybe Nokia Live would be the perfect place to bring back the lions.

nanorich on September 30, 2009, at 09:27AM – #52

Round Trip,

Doncha just love how they whine about being persecuted when they are caught in transparent dishonesty. I guess it isn't a sin to lie to heathens and the unchurched!

Time to go back the drawing board before they attempt to plant a church in the middle of Sodom.

(there is a reason the Church on the Way is North Eastern Van Nuys and not in West Hollywood)

Another pride goeth before the fall moment for the overreaching Youth Pastor and his gang of Christian Warriors!

Thilo on September 30, 2009, at 10:57AM – #53

Nano: Murder is more acceptable than lying??? Oi! I do agree, however, that if any pretense is offered other than "converting the heathen to a disciple of Christ" then they are either lying, or making up some pseudo-Christian hybrid syncretized religion, which likely would be of no threat as it would be both ineffectual (toward Christian goals) and inoffensive.

Noe on September 30, 2009, at 10:59AM – #54

Twilo: Not gross misrepresentations, in the least, and you know it.

Theatrical, perhaps, but a narrative that accurately mocks the ego of each budding new priest who thinks that HE is one who can interpret those biblical words the best.

Unlike homosexuality, religion is a choice. Christers, deaf in their religious fanaticism, appear unable to hear that their chosen beliefs aren't welcome. Why is that?

Noe on September 30, 2009, at 11:03AM – #55

"In house," Twilo?

Wrong again.

Although a conservative and often Caucasian-oriented blog, there isn't a Christer cross or a fish refrigerator magnet at the top.

Check thyself.

Thilo. on September 30, 2009, at 12:59PM – #56

Noe: LOL. The subject of correct interpretation is in house I meant. Misinterpretation? Of course, inarguable. You speak of impressions rather than interpetations. As to the welcome or not issue, this was I thought the left's "holy grail"? Free speech. One disseminates an idea, others are free to walk away or stay and listen, to embrace or reject. So walk on. nobody is placing you on the rack are they??? If he is wholly unwelcome, the seats will be empty. If he is welcomed by some, they will sit. So don't sit. Why do you try to force your beliefs down the throats of others?

Thilo on September 30, 2009, at 01:00PM – #57

BTW- it's "Thilo". I presume a typo.

Noe on September 30, 2009, at 01:57PM – #58

No, I was referencing Twilo, the NYC nightclub where patrons often lost their minds.

It would be sad to allow downtown to spread Christer agenda. Then we continue to get things like this:

Christian Science prayer deductible as a "medical expense."

http://ffrf.org/action/2009/spiritualhealthcarebills.php

Enough, already.

Thilo. on September 30, 2009, at 03:08PM – #59

Noe: anytime you'd like to discuss these issues in the presence of others as an audience, E me at thiloyoung@yahoo.com. I love to engage in such discussions over a good cigar. Thanks for your time.

Sandie Richards, firstla.org on September 30, 2009, at 10:59PM – #60

There are already loads of comments, but I wanted to add something about homosexuality, since there was a comment about welcoming those who beat up homosexuals. I do not condone violence of any kind; most particularly I understand beating up of gay people to be a hate crime.

I don't know the new church's stance on social issues, but am looking forward to getting to know the new pastor and understanding more of where this congregation is coming from.

Our congregation not only accepts GLBT and Questioning people, but we have GLBT people in leadership. It is a blessing for us to have such diversity; for people of faith who are comfortable with diversity of age, race, ethnic identity, and sexual orientation and who want to be a part of a Christian church, I think our church is a good one join.(First UM Church of Los Angeles)

There are getting to be more and more choices about places to worship in downtown Los Angeles, and I welcome all who, despite differences, can work together to make a lively and vibrant community.

I also welcome those with concerns to voice them-- unless problems are brought up, we don't stand a chance of resolution.

Vanzant on October 01, 2009, at 12:49AM – #61

I wasn't going to comment anymore because I felt the discussion had become too focused on homosexuality vs. Christians. Thank you Sandie for your enlightening comment. Yes there are plenty of gay bashing religious institutions..but not all are alike. Just as not all gays, blacks, whites, etc. are alike. There is plenty of diverstity among religions as well. Some are very accepting. Remember only a very few church denominations had any opinion on prop 8, so why judge all churches the same? I'm not a very religious person, I just feel like everyone deserves a chance, as long as they don't interfere with peoples way of life when they are not wanted to (speaking of those particular churches). Lets all be a little more welcoming to anything new in downtown. It seems like we'd have less protest over a strip club opening in club nokia....geez..

Aaron on October 01, 2009, at 09:58AM – #62

Still eagerly awaiting Jesse's answers to my questions. Will I be welcome at this church? Let's hear it.

Noe on October 01, 2009, at 12:37PM – #63

Aaron:

We all know that Jesse is reading these posts.

He's had ample time to respond to your query. Safe to assume that the answer to your question is not "no" exactly, but a conditional "yes" : that gays will only be "welcome" to his church under the stipulation that they show up and fear that specific god and admit to being unclean sinners and repent for being born un-normal aberrations. A fresh perspective on acceptance.

And the church will be more than willing to take their money.

Jesse's silence is your answer.

Ben S on October 02, 2009, at 09:08AM – #64

The saddest part of all this is how a Christian Pastor has, or I should say had, an amazing opportunity to be bold, be different and truly show what God's love is all about but instead chose to function in the same narrow minded, hurtful, and shameful place that non-demonational churches have been functioning from for the past 25 years. The truth is, the gap between the people that use the brain God gave them and the people that are afraid to discover the depths of the world God created is growing larger and larger, but it has no bearing on the number of people that still carry Christ in their heart. The one thing I hope and pray for is that people like me will keep God's love in their heart and do not allow people like Jesse Ross to deter them from loving the Lord and allowing him to be real in your life. The best thing a gay Christian can do is to give love and acceptance to those that want to point the finger and attack. All in all, when it comes time for us to go to heaven, the questions God asks us are, when I was hungry did you feed me? When I was thirsty did you give me something to drink? When I was a stranger did you invite me in? Not, were you gay?

As for Jesse Ross, well, the Downtown community has really spoken. For Christians of all walks of life, for those that have grown up in the church, with the fundamentals of Christianity in tow, but the knowledge and evolvement of many generations, we continue to search for a church that breaks down walls, that strives for innovation and ingenuity. We look for a church that keeps with the progression of time, and is re-inventing church for the Christian. That is the need of Downtown, and you my friend missed the mark, and missed an amazing opportunity and it breaks my heart.

Thilo. on October 02, 2009, at 11:48AM – #65

The Bible is clear. If one does not acknowledge its authority then please, please, please!!! Don't call it Christian. Homosexuality is clearly renounced in the Bible. How to treat homosexuals is also clear, but condoning that which scripture renounces is to make up one's own religion, and thus not Christian. I'm not arguing for/against it, just for intellectual honesty. One can't claim to be a capitalist Marxist.

1 Cor 9:9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

Again, I'm not making a case for whether this is valid or true, just that if one calls himself a Christian there is scriptural authority to govern. If one doesn't acknowledge this, be something else.

Thilo. on October 02, 2009, at 12:50PM – #66

Hey, how about this from the "tolerance, free speech" crowd? Jesse will, I'm sure, articulate his position. Just like you guys do. Then you tolerate any disagreement, like you demand others to do for you. If you disagree, say so and move on, just like you'd like others to do for you. If he seeks not to coerce, not to restrict, not to harass, not to impose, and says "you do as you see fit and so will I", then then you do for him as he does for you. If anyone disagrees, they are not coerced into attending, just as you do not coerce those with whom you disagree.

Coexist? We can disagree yet coexist right? I can say I believe homosexual conduct to be a sin without dragging you out into the night and beating you, right? I can disagree yet not seek to control you, right?

You don't demand others to bow to your will and agree with you, do you? You tolerate disagreement, right?

Jasmijn on October 02, 2009, at 01:00PM – #67

I agree with those who say, "if you don't like it, don't go." There are other churches for those who do believe in Christ, and even more options for a Sunday morning for those who don't. Like the just-closed Ed Hardy's, if they do not reach the hearts and wallets of those who live here, they will not last. I do wish a new church starting here had done so with more of a message of inclusion and diversity, like Sandie Richards'.

Of course, I must expect that those who claim strict scriptural basis for their anti-homosexual stance also keep to the rest of the restrictions the Bible is so firm about listing. That is, not only against lying and adultery and homosexuality, but also against wearing wool and linen together, eating shrimp, and shaving off beards. If one insists on a complete and literal adoption of the Bible, then of course they can't pick and choose which parts of Leviticus they will follow, and ignore the rest. As somebody told me once, very firmly: "This is the Word of God, not a cafeteria menu!"

Thilo on October 02, 2009, at 01:30PM – #68

Jas, I tend to agree. If the seats are empty, he will eventually leave. As to the "law" I would refer to NT references, which according to Christian Theology supersede the OT law of Moses, it having been fulfilled. The case stems from the NT, not the OT. Anyway, I didn't want to get into a Theological discourse, but we tend to agree mostly: speak your mind then move on.

(BTW- inclusion excludes exclusivists-LOL!)

Noe on October 02, 2009, at 01:46PM – #69

If fan(atics) of the New Testament eschew the Old Testament, when does an even Newer New Testament arrive so smarter, younger, Christers can lead the way?

Junior pastors, each and every one of you "believers."

What about that part in the bible that demands the stoning of women who aren't virgins when men want to marry them?

Is that going down at the Nokia, too?

Thilo on October 02, 2009, at 01:57PM – #70

Noe: no.

hahahahaha. BTW: I'll pay you fifty bucks to come debate these issues with me in front of my youth group on a Friday night. I really want them to hear this rationale firsthand. In Irwindale. You game?

E. on October 02, 2009, at 06:05PM – #71

Noe: It seems like you're more interested in antagonism than an exchange of ideas. That's fine, but I think the side of the coin you're arguing for is still part of the same f-ing coin. Does that make sense to you? What I'm trying to say, is that the same dualistic thinking that makes Christianity a bit "unsavory" (maybe an understatement to you...) Good/Evil being the most obvious one, is the same type of thinking that goes into angrily calling people "Christers". Just a thought.

Noe on October 02, 2009, at 06:28PM – #72

Christers, Christians, what's the difference? Google it. The word Christers isn't new nor inaccurate. At least it's capitalized so that they pay attention. Those who like rock music are oft called "rockers." If you injected anger into it, that's on you.

You have to admit, when Christers talk about their beliefs, the mission, their purpose, they so often careen into the word pool that includes: praise, renounce, kingdom, etc. and a curious selection of capitalizations. These aren't innocuous words. One is either out or in.

IRWINDALE, Twilo? I'm not so interested in the boondocks of the 909, hotbed of meth labs and missionaries, but thank you.

Vanzant on October 05, 2009, at 12:24PM – #73

Lol, not to be insensitive but is this a religious discussion blog?? Can we stick to downtown topics and not who believes in what? Think its time to close this topic :)

Noe on October 05, 2009, at 09:07PM – #74

For Vanzant

http://americansfortruth.com/news/matt-barber-answers-charge-that-christians-focus-too-much-on-homosexuality.html

Pat on October 06, 2009, at 11:10AM – #77

Pat Condell sums it up well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STlYN5KCiWg

DawnC on October 07, 2009, at 10:27AM – #78

I think a better fit for Downtown would be something more along the lines of Agape- a place where all beliefs and backgrounds are truly welcomed. Coming from a Buddhist and gay family, this is the only church I've been to where I really felt comfortable and accepted. I've only been a few times but I always really enjoyed and felt uplifted by the services. I would probably attend more often if it was closer. Does anyone know of anything like it going on in Downtown? I believe in many paths and one truth but I'm totally turned off by places that believe that their religion has a monopoly on the truth.

Dennis Smith on October 07, 2009, at 11:12AM – #79

Dawn- Just south of downtown on 33rd Street you can find the United Lodge of Theosophists. <ult-la.org>

DawnC on October 07, 2009, at 11:55AM – #80

Looks intriguing, I like the checklist. Thanks Dennis!

Christopher on October 23, 2009, at 12:47PM – #81

Christopher Cole

Thanks Jesse and shelly

I went to Live church enjoyed It felt relax an the message of Christian fath had modern feel. They made me feel at home. I will there Sunday.

I believe its not Jesse and Shelly part to change your opinion about god. cause ur your all ready sitting n the Church. God comes to u when ready not everytime you ask. It would be boring to be God if that happen.

Jesse and Shelly is tool for to find God. It still up to U.

terri on November 21, 2009, at 10:13AM – #82

they best people you will ever meet. i don't know how i found this church, but i'm glad i did. who cares if it's at a club, God is there!