74-Year-Old Hotel Manager Murdered on 4th Street

Guest 1

Bernard Hobson on January 05, 2010, at 08:41PM – #1

That's terrible, I'm sorry to hear about this. Maybe it's time to stop letting homeless people and drug dealers have free run of the streets in this area???

Guest 2

DTLALover on January 05, 2010, at 09:23PM – #2

Seriously. So very sad. It's so unbelievable how there is still so many transient criminals, and homeless people that pose a safety threat to all of the areas in Downtown. We need to stop worrying about stepping on peoples toes, or offending groups or areas. It's NOT ok anymore to watch violence every day in every area in Downtown. I was walking home at 10pm on Friday night and watched a black scary homeless man attack a drunk passed out old Mexican man, the old man laid on the sidewalk not moving, and as I walked over to try to help him, the homeless man started yelling at me and chasing me with a knife. Too bad when I called 911, I was on hold for 10 minutes, luckily, I was only feet away from my building. Scary part, I saw the homeless man this morning walking on Spring street.

We've been patient long enough. Get these people OUT OF HERE!

Guest 3

Chad Schlotterback on January 05, 2010, at 10:26PM – #3

What's sad is that with the local media you'll not hear about this, or if you do it's 8th page news. More important? Tiger Woods, a bowl game or the Obama's coming back from vacation.

The life of a 70 year old woman ending with bullets flying in her chest is just not that news worthy.

A shame. God rest your soul.

Chad

Guest 4

EJT on January 06, 2010, at 06:58AM – #4

Last Saturday night I was walking form my condo at Evo to LA Live and my party and I encountered a very aggressive homeless man that would not leave us alone until we gave him money. Security in downtown needs improvement if we want residents to live an feel safe here.

Guest 5

iluvhatemail on January 06, 2010, at 07:51AM – #5

skid row is the problem, and while I generally support the ACLU I think public safety is more important than harboring a crime filled district. Any one of them could murder someone and disappear in the sea of tents. The mentally disturbed people that live there need real help, and the safe haven for criminals needs to be disbanded.

Guest 6

sarah on January 06, 2010, at 08:56AM – #6

What a sad story. Yes, the homelessness and transient issue in Downtown needs to be addressed. However, let's be careful of speculating on who the murderer is until we get all the facts. And, let's be careful of using this issue to throw out sensationalist comments such as "ZOMG downtown is full of drug dealers, transients, and criminals!" NBC LA is stating that there were only five homicides in downtown in 2009, which was the lowest in a single year over the past twenty years.

Guest 6

sarah on January 06, 2010, at 08:59AM – #7

Oops - my mistake. Sorry, I didn't read the bottom part of the post that mentions there were three homicides in the past two months.

Guest 7

Rich Alossi on January 06, 2010, at 10:09AM – #8

To DTLALover: I've been in almost exactly the same situation, multiple times. LAPD talks a great game about listening and partnering and synergizing and thinking outside the box and putting crime stats on maps, but when you need them most -- when you call 911 -- you're on hold. I had to hold for ten minutes once when my life was threatened. I finally gave up and hung up when I saw the Purple Patrol. I had to hold when I called at 2:00am when OTHER people's lives were threatened. Are all the dispatchers on furlough or something? WTF good is 10,000 cops if there's not enough dispatchers to handle the calls?

I recommend to everyone out there, keep this phone number in your phone: (213) 624-2425. That's the Downtown Center BID (Purple Patrol that you see on bikes in the neighborhood). They have 24-hour response teams and will flood the area with patrols if there's an emergency. Actually, it's pretty awesome to see these guys in action.

If you're in the Fashion District, call this number for the Fashion Bid (Yellow Patrol), who I've also had to deal with and have had great response times from: (213) 741-2661.

Even though they're not police, it's possible they may have more direct communication with LAPD than just your average Joe calling 911. I dunno.

But look, just a disclaimer: I'm not advocating that you don't call 911. I'm just saying the Purple Patrol/Yellow Patrol is a backup. Also, the Purple Patrol only patrols its district (Financial District, Jewelry District plus contracts with the Historic Core).

The Purple Patrol may also have another number specifically for the Historic Core. I can't find it, but perhaps someone else has that and can share it.

Of course, none of this would have helped the hotel manager who was tragically murdered in the Toy District/Skid Row. I hope her family has been notified. Senseless loss of life is always painful.

Guest 8

E. on January 06, 2010, at 10:49AM – #9

There was also an incidence of a 13 year old boy stabbed near 4th & Main on Christmas night. In that case, the robbers jumped out of a white Ford, attacked and drove off. Sad cases--and very scary. I completely agree with iluvhatemail, and DTLALover--THE CRIMINALS NEED TO GO.

Dawna Nolan on January 06, 2010, at 11:00AM – #10

I want to add my dismay and sadness over a murder occurring, and also add that it isn't constructive to make assumptions about skid row and "homeless people that pose a safety threat to residents." I have lived downtown since 2001, when there were far fewer residents, and more openly criminal acts taking place in the streets, and on the occasions I've called 911, I have never been put on hold, and police response has been far faster than I would have anticipated. In fact, recently I contacted our police captain, Blake Chow, on Facebook of all things, and asked for his advice on whom to call or what action to take on drug dealing activity that I observe from my window. He answered immediately, and offered appropriate actions and resources. Beyond that, I actually know most of the homeless people that are my neighborhood "regulars" by name, even those that at first seemed aggressive, and I find that simply speaking to them with courtesy and dignity,transforms our interactions. I'm not suggesting that it's healthy or safe to reason with folks who are clearly mentally ill or obviously very intoxicated, but neither is it healthy to adopt a nimby attitude that one would expect to find in the suburbs. Plenty of available space in the suburbs, those that prefer less diversity in their neighborhoods should move there.

Eric Richardson (@blogdowntown) on January 06, 2010, at 11:11AM – #11

Just a quick note on the five homicides for 2009 that most places are reporting vs. the six that we have in the story: there were five for Central Division, which covers most of Downtown, but not all of it. The December incident in which a woman was killed by a woman driving a limo was counted to Newton Division, since it technically started in the northernmost edge of their area (7th street).

Guest 9

JJ on January 06, 2010, at 12:16PM – #12

I've always got my guard up when walking on the street but all of these comments are eye opening. Downtown is so great despite these issues. As a community, what can we do to make things better?

Guest 10

Sebastian on January 06, 2010, at 01:22PM – #13

They need to move all those shelter somewhere outside of downtown, as long as they remain there these problems will always continue. Also after putting so much money into Southpark, I don't think any tourist will like a homeless person begging for money after having dinner or a movie.

Guest 11

Ravi on January 06, 2010, at 01:24PM – #14

Creeeepy - While holiday shopping, I came across that very hotel and noted that I had never seen it before. Such a truly devastating way to leave the earth.

THANK YOU RICH for providing phone numbers. I'm saving them in my cell now.

When one lives in an urban setting, along with it comes the good, the bad, and the ugly. No state of nirvana exists where we neatly box up the ugly and place it out of OUR stream of consciousness. It might be best to understand when harm's way presents itself and know what to do to get OUT of the way!

Guest 12

General Jeff on January 06, 2010, at 01:37PM – #15

WOW! I remember this incident. I happened to be on my way back to Skid Row from City Hall and saw the cop cars. I started to inquire, but things seemed so regular (couple of cars in front of a building), that I kept going. I had no idea that someone died.

Even though this hotel is in Skid Row, it is not frequented by the usual Skid Row residents. In fact, there is Japanese( I think) or better put an Asian language on the markee out front. There are several Japanese hotels on that block. It's more Little Tokyo adjacent than Skid Row.

That said, there are still homeless folks that pass by. I don't know all the details, so it's hard to formulate any accurate thoughts regarding the murderer. Once more details are provided, then we all will know more and can "pass judgement" then.

Until that time, please stop generalizing and stereotyping about the people in Skid Row. Yes it's true that there are homeless people here. Some refer to Skid Row as "the homeless capital of the world". But realize that there are also, low-income individuals that suffer from poverty that are residents in Skid Row. Those are two different sectors that are a part of the overall demographic breakdown in Skid Row.

People that live in a Skid Row apartment don't like to be referred to as "homeless", they are suffering from "poverty". There are thousands of rent-paying tenants that live indoors and just so happen to live in Skid Row. When rebuilding one's life, you have to start somewhere.

Please be more understanding of who you are directing all that wild anger at.

None of that wildness, or better yet "undisciplined complaining" makes a case for a strong argument.

Besides, that totally takes away from the most important part, a woman in her seventies lost her life in what sounds like some sort of physical struggle. I wonder if she even spoke English. Was it language barriers that created the problem? Was there an on-going dispute between her and one of her tenants?

Bottomline is that she died and the LAPD need help to catch the killer. I haven't heard anything in the streets about it, have you?

My condolences go out to her family. May she rest in peace and may her killer be caught.

Guest 13

Commander Blake Chow on January 06, 2010, at 02:14PM – #16

Good points General Jeff

Central is investigating the case.

Some general comments:

Please wait to see where the investigation goes before reaching conclusions about who is responsible.

As a rule of thumb we also need to not generalize that all of a certain group are criminals or a threat to public safety.

Central will be releasing information as it becomes available.

Guest 14

General Jeff on January 06, 2010, at 04:13PM – #17

Thank you Commander Chow for echoing my comments.

I also would like to add that Skid Row is not alone in it's plight. We all must realize that people get high all over the world. People get drunk all over the world. Every race on this planet has rich folks and poor folks in their ranks. Each race also has super intelligent folks and super ignorant folks.

Also, every race has naturally-born healthy folks and those that either were born with birth defects and/ or mental health issues.

Here in Skid Row, we accept everyone as they are, no matter what their background is. We also know that there is a high concentration of mentally ill folks here. Does that mean we are ALL mentally ill or drunk and/ or high all the time?

The obvious answer is NO and when other folks point fingers and make generalized statements, especially the ones that are so negative and completely insensitive such as the ones made above, How does that help the situation? Do they realize they are setting race relations back hundreds of years? And finally, Who, then, sounds like they're mentally ill?

No one is perfect, we all are flawed in some way.

What's also obvious is the fact that Skid Row has a higher concentration of the less-sucessful categories and probably will always have a high number. It's not like I'm asking for sympathy, but merely understanding.

To be technical, Skid Row has been here for decades, even back when hardly anyone else cared about Downtown L.A. Now that others have moved here, Why is the most often-used answer to "get rid of the homeless" and "clean up the streets"?

When WE refer to cleaning up the streets, we are talking about the trash. Are you talking about trash, also? Or the people? And If that's the case, are you aware that you are calling human beings trash?

Since the elderly lady (in the above story) died in Skid Row, is she trash, also?

Exactly what is everyone truly saying when they complain? Especially when speaking out against a population that was encouraged to live here for decades prior to this recent interest in Downtown.

Who among the complainers is man or woman enough to speak up now?

Let's get to the bottom of this. I'm sure when it's all said and done, you'll direct that hate/ anger in the true direction it should have gone in to begin with.

Guest 11

Ravi on January 06, 2010, at 05:12PM – #18

Hey General Jeff,

Go man go! You may also want to spill the beans that Santa Clause doesn't exist. Neither do the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. (Sorry to let those cats out of the bag to you believers). The youth and the fortunate who grew up with such notions may have harder times dealing with the honest realities that confront the human condition. Heaven forbid a murder inconveniences our walk to get our morning latte. Sad - but that's a frame of mind that we as a community must ALSO deal with daily.

I pray that those involved with this case find closure, find justice, and love all the hard working, elderly for their tenacity and will to keep on making it into the next day.

LAPD - you, too! Go man go!

Guest 15

On The Street on January 06, 2010, at 06:30PM – #19

TO DTLALLOVER: Who said..." ...homeless man attacks a drunk passed out old Mexican man."

How exactly were you able to find out he was a Mexican national? Did the police tell you? Did he show you his Counselor ID? Perhaps he just "looked" Mexican.

Perhaps he was an American citizen? Or from Brazil or El Salvador. Amazing.

Guest 16

Glenn A Primm on January 06, 2010, at 08:29PM – #20

What a bunch of johnny-come-lately bleating sheep: "get these people out of here," etc.

Get a grip people. This is the Big City, not a freaking Galeria.

People have been living in cities for ten thousand years, where have you been? Five murders in a city core with a population of a hundred thousand yuppies + 20,000 homeless is NOTHING, NADA, ZERO. It's also roughly the same number of yuppie apartment swan-divers we had in the core district last year.

Want to be constructive? Thank the local cops: it used to be actually bad around here.

Grow up or get a big, angry dog and don't forget to curb him/she/it.

Guest 17

Veronica M. on January 06, 2010, at 09:38PM – #21

Does anyone know how this is affecting the little tokyo community? Do they have anything planned?

Guest 2

Jeff on January 06, 2010, at 10:16PM – #22

TO ON THE STREETS, and anybody else trying to be nobel or PC or STUPID:

You want to get upset with calling someone a "drunk Mexican." Get real. Do you pay thousands of dollars to help restore Downtown to the place it was and the place it can be? Do like paying such high rates of rent or mortgages when you can walk 5 feet without be begged for a nickel? Do you have any idea the gold mine that we live in here in Downtown that is pissed on, shit on, and roamed by people that don't give a shit? There is plenty of places for them to go. This is Los Angeles, one of the greatest cities in the world... but we are too PC and afraid to help it meet its full potential. The times are changing down here people... get used to it... just like they changed 50 years ago, they're changing again. If you want dirty streets, aggressive homeless people, and disrespectful bridge and tunnel folk... then you might want to move to Tijuana. BTW, did you know how much of the scum you track in from the outside into you home is shit and piss... care to find out???

And I am sorry that this comment has to fall under this story... because it is very sad what happened to this woman. But it seemed to stir a topic that I think needs to be addressed LOUD AND CLEAR.

Guest 18

Ignorance is NOT bliss on January 06, 2010, at 10:31PM – #23

It's extremely sad that a life was stolen senselessly. My prayers and positive thoughts are with the family of the woman.

Many of the comments posted have valid points but tarnished with ignorance - NO GIVEN NEIGHBORHOOD/COMMUNITY IS IMMUNE FROM CRIME!!!! Instead of voicing ignorance and name-calling and finger pointing, GET PROACTIVE!!!!If you claim Downtown is your home and neighborhood, then do your part to make it better - safer communities are those that include active participation from its inhabitants to keep the peace.

For the record, large metro, urban areas have historically attracted crime and violence. San Francisco, New York, London and Paris all experience the same problems and I have lived in these areas; if they can survive and prosper, so can Downtown!!!

Guest 1

Bernard Hobson on January 06, 2010, at 11:11PM – #24

More information in the Times.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-little-tokyo7-2010jan07,0,6622700.story

Guest 19

chattycathy on January 06, 2010, at 11:27PM – #25

My feelings go out to all victims of crime, especially the frail elderly. Lets hope she is now at peace, died maybe by accident, and not at the hands of of a drug=addled homeless criminal. But if the homeless and drug-addled people want to live on the streets, why do we tolerate them amongst hardworking, taxpaying citizens who contribute to society? What is wrong with insisting they stay indoors and idle away their hours inside a compound, instead of intimidating us on the streets. NO MORE LOITERING. How safe do you really feel when you walk by a group of loiterers in front of a drug-rehab hotel, or how safe do you feel when you walk by a bunch of people sleeping on the street?. How safe do you feel when dirty, disheveled people scream psychotic inane remarks at you when you walk by?

Do you want your children to walk by all of this on their way to school? Why should we move to the burbs to avoid all of this inner city life? Why don't all of us downtown dwellers who don't drink to excess, who don't take drugs, and who go to work and pay taxes have to endure more than our fair share of this mess of humanity on downtown streets?

I want a politician/police administrator with the balls to send them away to other cities so that we dissipate the numbers and not concentrate them amongst our beautiful historic downtown buildings. Hardworking, taxpaying, downtown dwellers have rights too.

To all of you do-gooders, go raise your children at 8th and San Julian. How long would you tolerate watching your children walking past those masses of people who choose to live on the streets? START MOVING THE LOITERERS OUT. I AM SICk And TIRED of THEM. I am still grieving over the poor 17 y.o.girl murdered by a homeless criminal living at some halfway house because the poor girl couldn't get money out of the ATM machines. I've had it. No more live and let live philosophy for me. MOVE THEM OUT.

Don Garza on January 06, 2010, at 11:35PM – #26

What is sad is that this murder happened in a place that is usually quiet and unassuming in the Little Tokyo Adjacent area. This is 4th street , the buffer zone between Little Tokyo and Skid Row; mainly day laborers sleep along fourth street between Central and San Pedro .Commander Chow and General Jeff are both right: we shouldn't draw conclusions or make assumptions until we have all of the facts. As far as the person scared away with a knife; have you thought that maybe that so called black dude saw you as a possible predator...having lived in skid row for ten years I have seen passed out people being protected by the other denizens or even those just sleeping. It is sad to see the assumption made that because the person was black and carrying a knife he was the menace...when that black man may have sen it otherwise..

We all just need to get a grip...

Guest 20

DTLALover on January 07, 2010, at 09:09AM – #27

You are right, I should have stopped to inquire and politely said. "Sir, why did you just punch the living daylights out of that person?And why are you coming at me with a knife and saying, what are you looking at, you wanna be next."

I'm sure I will have another opportunity.

Guest 17

Veronica M. on January 07, 2010, at 11:18AM – #28

Here is the article from Rafu Shimpo http://rafu.com/news/?p=8331

Don Garza on January 07, 2010, at 06:26PM – #29

sorry , dtlalover , didn't bother to reread the post , so many on here..

I didn't recall you watched an attack , but you found someone lying on the ground...

So exhausted as of late doing fitness training...

Guest 21

Brad Vixin on January 07, 2010, at 08:59PM – #30

DTLAL is probably making that up. Downtown has it's share of crime but it's hardly the 'violent' place you describe.

The sentiment of 'getting those people out of here' is how Skid Row was chosen as the place to send undesireables to in past decades. That policy is finally abandoned by the city and county. It's been getting better for years.

Despite the sad killing of that lady on 4th St, the crime rate downtown is much lower than most elsewhere.

Guest 22

SWEETKALI on January 07, 2010, at 09:15PM – #31

I wanted to respond to DTLALover's remarks about his Skid Row experience with violence.

Kudos for stepping up and trying to resolve a dangerous situation and call for help.

The only thing is, what does the race of the persons mentioned have to do with anything? DTLALover's experience could have told without mentioning race and nationality. When will we stop this type of subtle racism of focusing on color and actually see the person?

Also, the residents of Skid Row were here way before these new lofts and condos were built. Downtown is their home and they have a right to be here. Its important to remember this when moving to this area.

Guest 7

Rich Alossi on January 07, 2010, at 11:31PM – #32

Brad Vixin: You may not believe DTLALover, but I can guarantee you that I have not only witnessed similar incidents but have been on the receiving end of several equally violent episodes in Downtown.

You don't have to believe me either, doesn't matter. I've commented about those events before, as have several other people. Downtown's bipolar nature is just below the surface, and all it takes is a few events to really open your eyes to it.

I'm actually happy that most Downtowners haven't experienced the same thing. I'm hoping the half-dozen or so incidents which I've felt my life was in danger were just isolated incidents.

After literally feeling sick to my stomach to go out at night for a while, I'm finally getting back to feeling out the neighborhood again. It's been hard for me. It's absolutely real.

Guest 2

PatrickattheEvo on January 08, 2010, at 01:40AM – #33

It's 2010.... It doesn't matter who was here first. They didn't buy the land from the government. Downtown LA is "Home" for people who pay for it to be, it's about MONEY. That's the way the world works... otherwise push your shopping cart to some socialist county where no one has to work hard or be held accountable for their actions, and if you live in Downtown and don't push a shopping cart and you disagree with me... then how about you us all a favor and leave too.

As far as the racism... well, it's part of life, and it's not "racism" unless hypersensitive wing nuts turn it into that.

As for the crime... It was probably dtlalovers first encounter and was exaggerated, but nonetheless, it's true, white black yellow red brown, their a plenty of people Downtown that pose a threat on our safety. Someone up there said it's like that in every big city.. and they are right. However... Downtown is different. For decades Los Angeles has not had one center where everything happens, like a New York, Chicago or a London and most of the cities in Europe. But Downtown LA is a small town with big buildings. There is so much potential for a place unlike any of those cities, because of its uniqueness, it's character, and it's history. This is why there are so many people that seem upset about the homelessness, the crime, and filth... it just doesn't fit here anymore, it just doesn't make sense.

P.S. I voted for Obama.

Guest 2

DTLALover on January 08, 2010, at 02:02AM – #34

Thanks for all the comments about skid row... but the incident involving myself and the two "persons" involved happened on Broadway. I have lived in DT for 4 years now, I have to say I saw things get better from 4 years ago, but in the last 8 months it appears that things have become worse, could be the economy, or it could be that Downtown is still looked at as a safe haven for wrong doers, drug addicts, homeless, mental ill, and many more that need the cities help, and need to be given somewhere to go. Downtown is at at tipping point... I am really not sure which way it is going to go. I hope it for the better for ALL of us.

Guest 2

DTLALover on January 08, 2010, at 02:03AM – #35

Thanks for all the comments about skid row... but the incident involving myself and the two "persons" involved happened on Broadway. I have lived in DT for 4 years now, I have to say I saw things get better from 4 years ago, but in the last 8 months it appears that things have become worse, could be the economy, or it could be that Downtown is still looked at as a safe haven for wrong doers, drug addicts, homeless, mental ill, and many more that need the cities help, and need to be given somewhere to go. Downtown is at at tipping point... I am really not sure which way it is going to go. I hope it for the better for ALL of us.

Jamie DeFrisco on January 08, 2010, at 07:41PM – #36

I'm sorry to hear about this. It's a sad thing to hear that someone gets hurt or killed in Downtown, especially those who seem to be innocent.

Thank you General Jeff. You said a lot of things that I agree with that I probably wouldn't have responded with.

DTLALover, I have seen the recent decline in downtown also. I wasn't sure if it was just me over thinking things or if others noticed it too. It hasn't been all bad. There's been a lot of new businesses that have opened up and the nightlife in the area has really picked up(not just bars, but other businesses that have been staying open later).

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough programs to help people get off the streets, get off drugs, get the medical help they need, or get out of poverty. There's also not enough information out there on how people of downtown can help.

Guest 23

BB on January 09, 2010, at 10:51AM – #37

Look. This could have been domestic, a dispute, a business grievance...many of the criminals in Downtown aren't skid row residents. The investigation is ongoing. But if you want to talk BID and purple shirts, The Toy District just did away with their BID. The purple shirts service another area of downtown, as do the yellow shirts, etc. Because these area property owners vote on whether to pay additional assessments to continue security service (BID), and one property owner with his monopoly over the Toy area voted its renewal down, it puts a tremendous burden on the City to do away with the area trash and crime. In this specific case, what I'm saying is, where there's trash, there's crime. Read BROKEN WINDOWS. Maybe said property owner should think twice about his decision and its affect on everyone's health and safety? Maybe if the fines are ENFORCED repeatedly (for not providing adequate trash service for the wholesale business owners who DUMP their boxes and trash in the street) these fines could supplement the additional cost to the City of the trash and crime, and maybe then the property owner who voted down the BID, will weigh the costs...? I mean, if it's about the MONEY. Downtown is a unique animal, and we sure do utilize, thankfully, that extra group to assist with services.

Guest 24

Joe on January 11, 2010, at 11:40AM – #38

Crime is going to happen anywhere whether it's the liveworkplay obsessed DTLA or Bel Air. DT is a site of the haves and the have nots almost, by design.

Seeing a crime and not doing anything to help should be as punishable as the crime itself.

And when I read DTLALover's line about the "drunk Mexican," my first thought was, "Wow, we still have hillbillies in LA who label all brown people Mexican. THAT is a crime of ignorance, in and of itself." And the black aggressor could have been from Panama or Nicaragua... or Mexico.

Anyone who thinks that this is a "hypersensitive" reaction to race is merely uncomfortable with their own laziness and provincialism.

Guest 8