robert banuelos (@robert395) on April 29, 2010, at 05:18PM – #3

"Great...now LA's city council is encouraging everyone to support illegal actions."

demonstrating and protesting. i am pretty sure the first amendment says something about freedom of speech. Contrary to being illegal this is part of what being an American is about, the freedom to address our grievances about government publicly and peacefully.

"Guest" and i assume you are an anonymous guest out of shame. Part of the reason the Arizona Bill is so insidious. Is not because it just affects illegal immigrants, but anyone who "looks" illegal anyone of brown skin. Whether they are immigrants, native born citizens, 2,3,4 generation Americans or hell even native american might get stopped solely on the basis of their appearance. That is why this law is so despised. And why city officials and others are rallying against it.

Nancy Richardson (@nanorich) on April 29, 2010, at 07:39PM – #9

How likely is it that the former head of the LA County Labor Federation would post such a message?

Or that someone who had been on the receiving end of a politically motivated persecution by Steve Cooley would suggest that a "STOP AND SHOW YOUR PAPERS" law has anything to do with Federal Laws regarding illegal immigration.

Martin Ludlow is not not known for his arguments stolen from Glenn Beck.

robert banuelos (@robert395) on April 29, 2010, at 07:51PM – #10

Well i have not mention anyone being racist. My point was simply that this will lead to racial profiling of american citizens, namely Latinos. It may or may not be racist, but it is narrow minded. It is narrow minded to think that this law will not lead to racial profiling.
And though the protest is in part asking for immigration reform. many supporters are protesting the racial profiling and abuse of civil rights that the Arizona law will lead to. That is what separates this may day protest from those of the last few years. Because it is not solely about immigrants, but the rights of american citizens.

The protesters are not asking for the city's nor the police's presence. People are simply asking to assemble peacefully in public. If there is a large police presence that is at the discretion of the police chief. Which more than likely will overreact and staff an unnecessarily large police presence.

Nancy Richardson (@nanorich) on April 29, 2010, at 08:35PM – #13

Oh, really...

which Federal Law allows on the basis of "Reasonable Suspicion" (not Probable Cause) allow local police to assume they are stopping illegal aliens, when the state of Arizona is already 1/3 native born Latino. (that is REAL American to you, pal.)

And which law requires American citizens to show proof of citizenship (DLs don't count) when questioned by the authorities?

This fiction that the Arizona state law only recapitulates Federal Law is the meme being repeated on the far right blogs. It has no basis in fact.

If the good people of Arizona really cared about illegal aliens, why would they waste limited police resources going after suspected individuals, and not after the meat packers and other businesses which recruit workers in Mexico....and then call ICE when their workers are injured or are suspected of working with the unions?

Not racist? Just caring about the law? Tell me another.

What this is doing is pretty much guaranteeing that the Republicans can at long last kiss the the Latino voters good bye, after Karl Rove did all that hard work getting forty percent of hispanic voters to vote for George Bush.

Heck of a job, Teabaggers!

robert banuelos (@robert395) on April 29, 2010, at 09:07PM – #15

just enforcing the law???

So is that why Maricopa county is being investigated by the Department of Justice for civil rights abuse? and this was prior to the passage of the new law.

Enforcing federal laws already on the books? Must be why again the Department of Justice, is looking into this law.

i am not sure whats worse the law itself for the fact that people try to justify it through same flawed logic. If they are not racist, they are just naive or stupid.

Susana Benavidez on April 30, 2010, at 09:09AM – #18

I just came back from New York and specifically from visiting the Tenement Museum that tracks the immigration of the Italians, Irish, Russians, Polish, etc. If you've ever had a grandfather that has been called a Paddy, Pollock, a Charlie, a Chinaman, a Chink, a Jap, a Mojado, a Wetback, a Greaseball.... you know that we have all been in the same position: striving for a better life in America.

No one is claiming that Mexico is a glorious country; why would we leave if it were so? My mother came here at the age of 10 because they did not have food at home. She had to stay in Mexico for almost two years taking care of her younger sibblings until my grandparents were able to save up enough money to bring them over. She went through several traumatic raids of the "migra" as she started working two jobs at the age of fourteen to help the family out. She was a cashier at Clifton's Cafeteria on Broadway for years and a garment worker by night. She has a lot of pride in being part of the United States and eventually became a U.S. citizen.

I am not calling for another amnesty (though that would be nice for a lot of my friends that have been in this country since they were months old); but I hope that we as Americans understand that people look to our country with a sense of awe and hope. Yet when they come here they find that they are unwanted in the public and social eye but needed in the manual labor that we as Americans refuse to undertake.

Every single race, nationality, and wave of immigrant group has seen the "(insert your nationality) need not apply" throughout our history.

I do agree that the border should be controlled so that we stop allowing people to enter our country with false hope. Either you don't allow them to enter or you offer a road to citizenship so that they can contribute to the future of this country. But this hipocracy of allowing cheap labor to be exploited so that we can continue to live the American dream while stepping on the shoulders of unprotected and marginalized individuals needs to stop.

I really have nothing to say to the "guests" that post here anonymously. I really thought we were going to get rid of that feature- it only encourages hate and frustration.

J-M on April 30, 2010, at 02:52PM – #22

Most illegal immigrants want to become law-abiding citizens and pay their taxes like everyone else. Our system does not allow them to do so because of fear of the "Other". How about hounding the companies that employ illegals? I never hear about that (American Apparel excepted and they support legalization, so go figure). We're addicted to cheap fruit and vegetables, and cheap labor, but if we stuck to the founding ideals of this country, we'd try to find a solution as we did with every other previous wave of immigration. From an economics perspective it makes sense (more tax dollars to pay for services they receive anyhow) but I'm sure increased pay rates for workers scares the hell out of many businesses. The great thing about this country is that people WANT to come here. We should be proud of that fact and find a way to make it happen legally. Maybe Arizona did everyone a favor. The teabaggers aren't as big a group as the media portrays them to be...

J-M on May 01, 2010, at 01:27AM – #24

So, Jean, how exactly did your parents become citizens? Even those who can legally become citizens are severely limited in numbers, even more so than before. I can only think that we as a society are opposed to this wave of immigration because they're called Lopez or Garcia, instead of McGready or Bukowski. If we made it easier for people to become legal immigrants (not even citizens), then we might not be in this situation. I just came back from New York, where, like Susana Benavidez, I just went to the Tenement Museum and saw the Statue of Liberty (and Ellis Island) and I felt a surge of pride rather than shame. There was a time in the States when when the Chinese, Irish, Blacks, Italians, and Polacks were unwelcome here. Time DO change, and that's what makes this such a great country. Despite what the bigots may think, the future is already here and this Latino wave is just the next step in America's history. Who do you think will be paying your social security?? Oops, sorry, that's big government again...

J-M on May 01, 2010, at 01:34AM – #25

Actually, that's made my mind up: I wasn't going to participate before, but now I'm determined to make a stand. I'll be there for the march tomorrow and any decent upstanding citizens who are tired of this crap should be there too. Sometimes it's important for the silent majority to take a stance. Driving through Downtown tonight I realized that we all want the same things: family, friends, neighborhood and work; so if you believe in basic human decency it's time to make your voice heard.

Don Garza on May 01, 2010, at 03:12AM – #26

If you have ever been chased with a baseball bat after school in East Texas as a teenager all the while the caucasian kids in their Iroc z28 were calling me a wetback, like I was , you might have a differing opinion. My grandfather served in two world wars and I am named after his closest friend a russan pol by the way , who was killed on a ship during world War II...

These laws in Arizona are legalized racial profiling... If I could pass , instead of my mother's father having been full blooded apache , I probably would be like others and not care about these new laws , because, hey, I can pass as non-latino , like My Father , with his Hazel Eyes and All American , Abercrombie and Fich look , but , alas ! , I have dark skin and look like I just crossed the border...

I will be out there marching like I was 4 years ago when my Grandmother called me and asked me , she was a mix Spanish and English, she had beautiful blue eyes and the whitest skin you will ever see, asked me why I was out Marching with Mojados.. for the particular reason that eventually we would see something like the Arizona law passed..

Yes , Arizona has it's autonomy ,, but to pass a racist law like that is just plain wrong and I will boycott businesses and anyone who does business with Arizona. AS long as this country's Military actively recruits in countries south of the border because 75% of Amercians between 17 and 24 don't qualify for military service , I will be there to stand for those who are fighting these wars regardless of whether we believe in them or not... I served with many who had been recruited from spanish speaking countries, they are law abiding citizens , now they are cops, prison Guards, lawyers , architects , and Citizens of our great country..

Viva la Gran Marcha!!!

Kevin Lynn on May 01, 2010, at 04:21AM – #27

Being the son of an immigrant and having had an occasional cousin or two that overstayed their visa I've a perspective other than academic on the debate. And my feelings are mixed but in the end I feel more comfortable supporting the rule of law.

I believe that illegal immigration can and aught to be curtailed and it is possible to do so within the framework of our civil rights. Starting in the autumn of 1997, the bi-partisan US Commission on Immigration Reform (later known as Jordan Commission after the late Congresswoman Barbara Jordan who was its chairperson) began to release its findings after an exhaustive review of the issue. The Jordan Commission reported that "illegal" immigration was not in the best interest of the US and in particular unskilled workers and should be curbed using deterrence strategies and removals.

I believe the legislature of California should work closely with the federal government to craft an immigration policy that enacts the reforms stipulated in the studies and reports published by the Jordan Commission. All and all, Arizona’s measures may not be too far from the kind of measures recommended some thirteen years ago. Cooler heads can enact enforcement measures that balance effectiveness while preserving civil rights.

The Jordan Commission articulated the standard that “a credible” immigration policy must meet if it is to truly serve the national interest: “people who should get in do get in; people who should not get in are kept out; and people who are judged deportable are required to leave.”

I know as a progressive I am at odds with my view that illegal immigration is bad for the US and that massive waves of immigration from Mexico and Latin America have been an absolute disaster for native-born unskilled workers. In my view, increased immigration has swamped American labor markets with less-skilled, less educated workers. This has driven down wages for less-skilled, less-educated Americans.

For instance, construction costs are much higher than they were thirty years ago yet wages are way down in the industry. A part of this can be attributed to increased costs of code changes but the rest is going into the contractor and developers pockets and not into workers salaries.

The same is true for garment workers, gardeners, and the cooks at your local eatery. An open border is keeping wages down, the multiplier down, and tax revenues down. Moreover, it is also teaching young White, Asian and African-American workers that there are kinds of work reserved only for “Mexicans” and at the slave wages offered far below their dignity. this is bad for them and the country as a whole. It devalues all labor.

When I was thirteen (a long time ago) I got my first job off the farm and it was scooping poop and painting fences at a large dog kennel - IT was a great job! I got paid more than minimum, the law mandated that I work no more than 32 hours a week. The money I earned went to buying a bike and saving for college. I don't think a job like that would be available to a kid here in LA because the employer would not want to pay so much nor want to incur the potential liability of hiring someone that could bring suit.

I believe our immigration policies have as much to do with the lowering of the American worker’s standard of living as do our trade polices. With less skilled workers flooding the market, employers have been able to drive down wages and slash benefits. Professionals like myself have done pretty well, but meatpackers, truckers, cleaning women and busboys haven’t been faring very well.

The evidence of the above is not just anecdotal, there studies supporting it are voluminous. Yet nothing is being done to effectively deal with the problem.

DawnC on May 01, 2010, at 08:52AM – #28

Are there really people who advocate open borders? I imagine we would all prefer a system where the people who are needed here could come here legally and be protected by our labor laws. Unfortunately it's a complicated issue because there's whole industries built on the backs of people who are willing to work for much less than they should. Those industries are not interested in seeing any kind of reform, they are interested in continuing to make money. Unfortunately it's the illegals that are blamed and not the people who hire them. It's actually amazing what people will go through just to get to a place that has hope of a better life (including risking their lives). Rounding folks up and sending them home isn't going to solve anything. Instantly granting citizenship to anyone that's already here won't solve it either. There has to be a carefully thought out plan for the whole country that takes everything into consideration. We have to deal with what is so, not what we wish was so.

I do agree that the law in Arizona has great potential to cause harassment for American citizens. I bet there will be far more U.S. citizens of Latin decent affected by this and hardly any illegal Canadians who can also cross our boarders easily.

Don Garza on May 01, 2010, at 01:22PM – #29

If anyone has been s student of history, demagoguery during tough economic times and leveraging xenophobia has been a great tactic that scapegoats a group for certain people to attain status or keep it. We saw this all thorughout history , but in recent memory we saw it in Nazi Germany. Fear is something that most of those advocating laws such as the one in Arizona that was just passed is a part of a time when , like someone said above , it aids in the blame of those seeking a better life and creates a smokescreen on those who hire illegal immigrants.

It is time we stood against the xenophobes and demagogues and called them out for what they are and it is time to hold them accountable. Some disguise themselves as friends and as progressives, but in reality are not whom they claim to be. Many of us have been reticent. But it is time. Some have no shame.. these are those who watched when those who were killed in Nazi Germany and did absolutely nothing..

From a psychological perspective these people are afraid, are insecure , and if they are really vocal and target a certain group of people very dangerous....

J-M on May 01, 2010, at 06:22PM – #32

To Guest #30, the issue is that the road that was open for your grandparents is not open to today's immigrants. The actual numbers of people legally allowed into the States these days is ridiculously small, even for professional workers, which is why they're all heading to other countries and the US is going to face a tough future. This is what really gets to me about the immigration issue: everyone says the illegals should just come here legally, but then we make it impossible for them to get in if they follow the rules. (We've also decimated their agricultural economy by forcing them into free trade agreements, but that's another issue) It's easier for someone from a "developed" country to get in, but not by much. I've met Americans who have emigrated to other countries and they are starting to face the same hurdles, because other countries are reciprocating. In the long run, this will hurt the US, and it's all based on fear and ignorance.