Downtowner on November 12, 2011, at 12:54PM – #1

They need to ditch the TAP card in favor of a pay-as-you-go Metro-type card a la NYC or Chicago, and one that automatically tracks transfers as well.

TBerry on November 12, 2011, at 03:59PM – #2

I completely agree with Downtowner. The TAP thing is totally counter-intuitive. The Metrocard system NYC has is really the way to go. ALSO, one shouldn't have to pay to switch directions on the line if you don't leave the station (i.e. if you missed your stop and had to go back) which the current ticketing system stipulates.

Ticketing aside, Metro needs to run trains with greater frequency and on a longer schedule (not ending at 1am). It seems this is underway, which is great, but I think this is really crucial for an urban public transit system.

One other note... if/when Metro starts replacing their current fleet of subway cars, they should seriously consider a design with a different seating configuration. The booth-like seating currently on the train cars that juts out with two deep seating on each side creates VERY narrow aisles for people who are standing (which is most people during peak hours). it's absolute pandemonium when people try to get off the train from the center of the car and force their way through what is basically an aisle barely wide enough for two people to pass. Add to this the fact that LA has a large number of Metro riders who bring bicycles onto the train... there simply needs to be wider aisles through the center of the cars. In NYC, the subway cars have one row of seating on each side of the train that are flush to the wall of the car (i.e. the backs of the seats are against the window and you sit facing into the aisle). The aisles, in turn, have an immense amount of standing/walking room throughout the cars. Also... you will remove the issue of those sitting in "window seats" having to climb over people in the "aisle seats" to get off the train. This is the only format that makes sense for urban rapid transit. The current setup is more of a suburban commuter rail configuration and is not appropriate.

Brian Tompkins on November 12, 2011, at 04:24PM – #3

Didn't Metro look at what other cities were doing before they built and implemented? Sounds like a job for the Dutch Think Tank.

1. Better price breaks for multi-use cards. Ex. 50 rides in 30 days, which is the ideal commuter card.
2. Transfers in the same direction should be free within an hour. So if I'm going from 7th St. station to somewhere in Pasadena I should't have to buy a second ticket.
3. Bucket/bench seats parallel to walls, opening up center aisles for standing room.

William Crandell on November 13, 2011, at 05:07AM – #4

If Jerry Brown REALLY wants to act like the futurist that he claims to be, he'd prioritize the construction of the Wilshire corridor subway all the way to downtown Santa Monica. I mean really; how many people commute between L.A. and San Fran every weekday? We need a westside subway first, not the damned HSR E-Ticket ride for propeller heads!

Stop and analyze a street map of the Westside: the even distribution of east-west corridors diminishes as one proceeds west from Hollywood and Mid City. Traffic is forced to merge onto five overburdened arteries: Sunset, Santa Monica, Wilshire, Olympic and Pico. That fact alone points out the need for having subway technology running all the way to the beach.

To paraphrase Asa Briggs, let's take in the entire scene, grasp it all and gain the synoptical view, all of the astonishing length and breadth of the great postwar urban axis, the intricate and exhausting interweave of arteries and corridors. Something better must emerge. We need to ride by subway all the way to Ocean Boulevard.

Jon on November 13, 2011, at 12:19PM – #6

Eric,

Metro can do things to help address your second point as well. Signs asking people who just stand on the escalators to stay to the right. Painted lanes/arrows/markings on the floor aligned with train doors, showing people where to stand when waiting to board.

Common sense stuff, that unfortunately many Metro riders don't get. So provide signs to show them the way.

on November 13, 2011, at 09:13PM – #7

Signage! Living at 7th & Flower, I can't tell you how many people I help locate the metro as they stand on the corners looking completely lost. Since we live here we know, but visitors - not easy.

Raymond3000 on November 13, 2011, at 10:29PM – #8

I don't know if its been brought up before but will Metro ever add portals on the south side of 7th between Fig & Hope? I think it would help to have entry/ exit portals on both sides except one.

() on November 14, 2011, at 01:22AM – #9

A friend visiting from out of town recently pointed out to me that at the entry to most stations there are no indications on the platforms, on the screens, or in the stations of which trains are on what platforms. For example at 7th St Metro Center, entering from the Figueroa side, there is no sign that points to the Red and Purple Lines downstairs, and once on the platforms, no indications that they stop on the same track. The screens announce only the destination, but not the line color.

If new to the system, how would you know what level the Red Line is on? I ride every day so I never thought about this, but it is very confusing to visitors.

Steve White () on November 14, 2011, at 10:53AM – #11

Brian: the price for a Metro 30-day pass if $75. That means you break even at 50 rides (with each ride being $1.25), and then you continue to get an unlimited number of rides for free during that 30-day period. This i better than the "ideal" of just getting 50 rides.

I think signage is the biggest issue - and we see it in all aspects. One thing that amazed me was the day I found out you could buy TAP cards at station vending machines. It's only at a few machines, and they are not clearly marked at all. There's a small oval shape that signifies you can buy a TAP card, but ALL machines have the shape, some just have it grayed out, meaning you can't. There should be big vinyl adhesive signs or something (this would be so cheap and easy) above the TVMs saying "Purcahse TAP Cards here" with arrows pointing across and down to the machine that has them.

Similarly, I agree that 7th St needs signage telling patrons where the Blue line and where the Red/Purple lines are. This will become even more important when the Expo line opens and we now have 4 lines in that station.

Also, the schedule screens on the light rail lines (Gold specifically) need to be turned perpendicular to the platform and tracks. They are good in the Red/Purple stations, but because they face the tracks, only a few patrons in a specific spot can read them on the Gold line. It is also dangerous to do so, having to back up against the platform edge to see the signs.

on November 14, 2011, at 01:18PM – #12

Signage for Station Stops on the Gold Line is non-existent or hard to find on the trains.

When I was in Tokyo,Japan, signs were multi-lingual, since were an international city why not do the same.

And while were at it, how 'bout reducing the number of steps to transfer from the Red Line at Union Station to the Gold Line. I don't think the designers count the steps to transfer from one train to another, or maybe they just want us to exercise more. - TK

on November 14, 2011, at 03:24PM – #13

Ditching TAP because it doesn't have all possible features implemented would be like throwing out a lamp because the lightbulb burned out.

Yes, TAP needs improvements, but throwing it all out and starting over makes no sense.

Beyond that, we definitely need better signs. Both the kind that point at stuff and the kind that tell you when things are approaching.

Allison Corona on November 14, 2011, at 04:48PM – #14

I'm a huge fan of signs that say "keep right" on the escalators and other such courtesies.

Additionally, I'd like to see security or ways to text or message Metro. Last week I came across a man playing with himself at a station and had no way of contacting Metro or officers except by using the the rather loud intercom for emergencies. If someone wanted to report something while being discrete such as a suspicious package or taggers or in my case, an exhibitionist, there are no options other than to wait to get off the train or out of the station, at which point you've lost them.

Jim Shafer on November 14, 2011, at 05:44PM – #16

Ideas...
1. Turnstiles that physically open and close when you enter/swipe a ticket like in NYC and the Bay Area at every train station, underground, at grade, or elevated (except Metrolink). When you leave the system, you do the same and the proper amount is deducted. This way you transfer between lines and remain within the system. You're only charged when you finally exit.
2. To go along with that, a booth with a live human being wherever ticket machines are located within stations, again like in NYC and in the BART system. These people can help keep an eye on things, help with adding fare to tickets/buying tickets, and answer general questions.
3. Having done this, now the sheriff/other security people can focus on real problems and not waste their time asking people for proof of proper payment.
4. A distinct symbol for each station, like a simplified image of City Hall for the Civic Center Red Line station, and a silhouette of Pio Pico (last Mexican governor of California, for whom Pico Blvd. was named) for that Blue Line station. To see what this could look like, Google Image search "Mexico City Subway Symbols" and you'll get the idea.
5. A number for each line as well as a color. Some people remember colors better than numbers and vice versa. That's the thinking for the symbol idea as well. Some will remember the picture more easily than the name.

Brian Tompkins on November 14, 2011, at 11:23PM – #17

@Steve White. That's my point. An "ideal commuter card" would be for someone who rides to and from work (40-50 rides per month). The monthly pass has little incentive for this rider. In November for example, this person would only ride 44 times. So they wouldn't even break even with a monthly. Here are some better examples:

Chicago CTA-Monthly unlimited breaks even at 33 rides London Underground-Monthly unlimited breaks even at 27 rides Barcelona-50/30 is the same cost as 27 rides and the monthly unlimited is the cost of 41 rides

Vero Queero on November 15, 2011, at 08:57AM – #18

(Red Line) No more "surprise" short trains! Most trains during "rush" hours are long, full-length, 6-car trains. Those of us who get to the station a few minutes early make our way down to the right end of the platform, to get in the last car which tends to have the most room available. Every once in a while, a short, 4-car train pulls up without warning, and we all have to haul ass like a bunch of dorks towards the middle to make the train. Then of course, the last car is EXTREMELY packed at this point because this scene repeats at every station.

Steve White () on November 15, 2011, at 09:17AM – #19

@Brian,

Got it! I misunderstood your previous comment, but I do agree. This is the exact reason I switched from a 30-day pass to paying by the ride. There were a few months when I went over 50 rides, but I realized I was usually in the 40s.

Here's an idea... a smart system that stops charging you at a certain point. We could do away with day passes on TAP cars and everyone could pay by the ride. But, once you hit $5 of charges, the system stops deducting money from your card. Similarly, once you hit $75 of charges in a 30-day period, the system stops deducting from your card until that 30-day period is up. It seems like this would just be a software update to the back-end system and would really make things easier for riders. Tap your TAP every time, and be confident that you're never charged more than a day or 30-day pass. You can also be confident that you're never going to "not get your monies worth" on a pass you don't use enough.

Vero Queero on November 15, 2011, at 06:56PM – #20

Lots of good comments about signage, here's another yet albeit minor one: (red/purple lines) easier to see signage on the outside of the train. For example, you're walking down to the platform & hear a train coming, you end up rushing down the stairs/escalator to find out it's not the train you want. Or a train just left, it would be nice to know which one it was so I know if I'm now waiting 5 or 10 minutes for the next one (which might be helped by better signage on the platforms). I'm thinking of the Muni trains in San Francisco that have big letters against a starkly contrasted background on every car, front & side (maybe even the back?); the old faded LEDs on the red & purple trains are hard to read, especially from a distance. God forbid they color code them to match. What other city uses orange buses for most of their lines, then gray buses on their orange line?

on November 15, 2011, at 07:14PM – #21

In addition to amenities and user navigation improvements, basics like climate control in the cars and perhaps air fresheners would really improve the experience.