ChasCam580 on August 28, 2012, at 09:54AM – #1

What about the rats that roam freely at night in the park. Will the city finally take care of this health risk?

Richard Florence on August 28, 2012, at 01:02PM – #2

WATCH Day 1 PERSHING SQUARE "TASK FORCE" debut at the Farmers Market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmX0oEv7LC8

zeMinimalist (@zeMinimalist) on August 28, 2012, at 02:19PM – #3

I hope the police enforce the very basic rule that no one is allowed to sleep in the park over night. This includes sidewalks as well. Los Angeles is a vast city with millions of people contributing to the well being of our city, free loaders are never welcome.

Kim Cooper on August 29, 2012, at 08:43AM – #4

If the people who use Pershing Square as park space don't see a need for aTask Force (per these interviews), and the businesses surrounding the park don't see a need for a Task Force (per the interview-filled video Richard Florence links above), then this all seems to come down to reported complaints made to City Council last week by three individuals: Pershing Square Farmer's Market manager Jony Edwards, DLANC President Patti Berman and Russell Brown of the Pershing Square Advisory Board.

It appears as if this Task Force has been empowered prematurely, and that its actions are coming not out of a measured understanding of the issues, but out of a desire to evict the homeless, who have fewer and fewer places to go during the day since the County clean up and LAPD's new enforcement of no-sitting rules on the sidewalks of Skid Row, and discourage members of Occupy LA from holding meetings in the park.

One of the problems with discussions of this park is a lack of historical context. Most people who come to Pershing Square are unaware that the park has been redesigned on several occasions explicitly to make the space less agreeable to the city's underclass and to political activists, who have always frequented Pershing Square. The unpleasant and hard to use concrete design is no accident, and the use of policing to drive certain people out of the park has a long and ignominious history. Communists, socialists, gays, Christians, the elderly poor, and now the homeless and members of Occupy LA are being shown that their kind is not wanted in the New Downtown.

In order to illustrate the regretable history of design-as-social-engineering in this park, and provide some context for people who would like to understand what's happening today, I obtained four previously unpublished 1950s-era Technicolor slides and wrote a short historical blog post about how people have been driven out of Pershing Square in earlier years. See here: http://onbunkerhill.org/pershingsquare

Yes, Pershing Square needs a lot of help, but responding so aggressively to the complaints of a single business owner -- who did choose to set up shop in a public space that has had a documented homeless and drug problem for many decades -- seems to be the wrong way to help Pershing Square and the community. Let us ask Councilman Huizar to reign in the police force, to hold off on the purchase of expensive trash compactors, and poll the people who actually use and surround and care about the park what changes they think are needed to make a positive change. A Pershing Square Task Force could really make a positive difference. This is not that difference.

Robert A on August 29, 2012, at 10:57AM – #5

Um...the Big Belly (solar trash compactor) is going to help keep the rats out of Pershing Square. Why would you advocate delaying the installation? Crazy talk. Santa Monica has them...is that a problem? They are environmentally friendly and will help keep the park clean without having to change the trash liners. Who wouldn't want that?

Kim Cooper on August 29, 2012, at 11:55AM – #6

Robert, based on news reports about Chicago's purchase of 400 units for $2.5 Million, the cost per can appears to be $6250. I am not aware of any study showing that the Pershing Square rats feed on trash from open garbage cans.

In a city that has such limited resources for park improvements, allocating $81,250 for a change in how trash in Pershing Square is contained, which may or may not address a vermin problem, does not seem the best use of funds.

Again, why not ask the wider community how they would like to see Pershing Square improved? Perhaps solar trash compactors would be on a list of changes desired, but would they be at the top of the list?

Robert A on August 29, 2012, at 02:09PM – #7

Well perhaps you should watch the rats run in and out of the trash cans at dusk...which is a health hazard. The Big Belly reduces collection frequency by 80%. It is a great first step. Plus, it will decrease the frequency of homeless people who litter our streets by looking for food and throwing garbage on the streets and in the parks. Now that happens day in and day out...especially on Broadway.

Kim Cooper on August 29, 2012, at 02:55PM – #8

Robert, to whose health are the rats a hazard? There is no food service business operating regularly in Pershing Square, and the rats do not come out during the day when people are in the park. There are no enclosed spaces where park visitors might be exposed to rat droppings, and presumably the park is cleaned with some frequency. Rats and cities go together, and despite centuries of effort, nobody has ever been able to get rid of the rats.

It is obviously true that the new trash compactors will keep poor people from being able to obtain recyclables or uneaten food that others have thrown away. If this is one of the reasons for the city choosing to spend $80,000+ on fancy trash receptacles, I think that should be explicitly stated. When people are this hungry in our community, spending so much money on inaccessible trash cans seems a cruel sort of bandaid solution.

Robert A on August 29, 2012, at 04:53PM – #9

Don't be an enabler Kim. Send them to the missions for food and to get clean...they should not be eating out of trash cans. This article will help you understand the problem better. It says most of the homeless are substance abusers or mentally ill. They need help and they can get it just east of Pershing Square. Making excuses for them only makes the problem worse.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/08/29/la-clergy-group-stop-feeding-homeless-on-skid-row/

Kim Cooper on August 29, 2012, at 05:42PM – #10

I'm not an enabler, Robert. Nor am I a maker of policy. I cannot send anyone anywhere to eat or seek other services.

However, I can question how the allocation of our community's limited public funds are being spent, and what the underlying motivations for these transactions might be.

I respect your right to disagree with my opinion. I don't say that mine is the right one, just the one I have formed based on my own extensive research into Pershing Square's history and its present use. My perspective is valid, as is that of the Clergy Council, as is yours.

Mostly, what I would like to see come out of the raising of these important issues is an open discussion, with real data attached, to help the community understand what challenges are facing Pershing Square and the people who frequent it, and allow policies to be enacted that are less superficial than simply locking down garbage and assigning more police and private security guards. This will take time and effort, but I think it will be worth both expenditures.

jonyedwards (@jonyedwards) on August 29, 2012, at 09:12PM – #11

I have to admit to having a different opinion to the one Ms. Cooper has on what purpose a park serves the community it's located in. Whatever the historical context, I do not believe an encampment of people strung out on drugs, sleeping in flea ridden sleeping bags, urinating and defecating in public, fighting among themselves, with some clearly needing urgent medical and mental care, as well as pan handling is what a community wants of its public space. And obviously, for health reasons alone, such an encampment could not exist adjacent and adjoining a farmers market.

Unquestionably, I advocated for the encampment to be moved. But so did many, many others, including the farmers and vendors who make their legitimate and tax paying livelihood from selling at farmers' markets. And so did the hundreds of local residents and office workers who gave their patronage to the farmers' market until, that is, the appalling stench and anti-social behavior of the encampment dwellers drove them away. Happily, and thanks to the Task Force, they are returning. And, soon, so will the farmers who left when the stench, the un-leashed pit bull, the pilfering of fruit and food became too much for them.

Of course, others see it differently, not just Ms. Cooper. Ms. Lazur wasn't troubled by the feces and urine in the main concourse of the park, next to the farmers' market. No, her concern is that human urination is taking place where she takes her dog to pee. But I don't believe Ms. Lazur is representative of the majority.

I believe the overwhelming majority of local residents and office workers, and tourists, who visit Pershing Square want a park that is for quiet reflection, good natured fun, picnics and, yes, maybe a thriving farmers' market. But that's not what Ms. Cooper wants. Sad to say, it appears her advocacy is for anti-social behavior disguised as advocacy for the homeless. What other conclusion can one arrive at when one reads her posts!

Christopher Eaton on August 29, 2012, at 11:41PM – #12

I am thrilled with the task force. Now can we please get the fountain turned back on and open up the lawn that has been closed for months? The state of the park had really become disgraceful up until last week. The ridiculous homeless encampment was absolutely insane. No large city in the country would put up with what we all endured over the summer. The park doesn't belong to any one group, and it shouldn't serve as a showcase for everything that's wrong with the Homelessness Industry that is so entrenched in Skid Row-an entire industry of people who's incomes are dependent upon keeping the homeless homeless and upon attracting more homeless people to Skid Row. It's really quite perverse. Let's give the park back to all of us and make every part of L.A. County step up and take care of its homelessness issues. DTLA should not have to bear that burden for an entire region. The days of the homelessness industry in DTLA are numbered.

Kim Cooper on August 30, 2012, at 02:35PM – #13

I find it troubling that in response to my questions about policy, Mr. Edwards choses to criticize me personally, and make false and defamatory claims about my intent and beliefs. I note that he also attempts to discount the informed opinion of a regular park user, Jaclyn Lazur. Are the only people whose opinions he considers valid those who agree entirely with him?

It's a tired rhetorical trope to suggest that when someone speaks for the poor and the disenfranchised, and for the preservation of historic spaces, that they are somehow "pro-crime." The same dishonest attack has been leveled at Jeremiah Moss just this week, in response to his op-ed in The New York Times regarding the negative urban impacts of Chelsea's High Line Park and the "hyper-gentrification" development activity that surrounds it.

The "pro-crime" accusation is meant to shout down the contributions of the person who is tarred with this brush. I trust that thoughtful readers will not be misled by this deliberate misrepresentation of my point of view, nor by the unsupported claims of one businessperson to speak for hundreds of downtown residents, vendors and shoppers.

Pershing Square has been a public space since Los Angeles was ruled by the Spanish Crown, and whatever its problems it has always remained a place for the people of this city to come together. This is not private space, and the people cannot and should not be forced out of the park at the behest of any private business that is granted the privilege of utilizing the public place.

If laws are being broken, there are tools for dealing with that. Trimming back the trees so there is no shade during the hottest August most of us can remember, watering the dirt to create vast mud puddles, officers driving SUVs and horses through the park, all of these acts create a less pleasant space for all Angelenos.

Pershing Square can be better than this. So can this city and its citizens.

C D W on August 30, 2012, at 04:04PM – #14

Poor Ms. Cooper is so misunderstood in her ramblings.

Thank you jonyedwards for your comments - as a resident, downtown business owner and shopper, I'm thrilled they cleared out Pershing Square and didn't let it get to the point that City Hall got to. I'm sick of K-rails around City Hall because of occupy & homeless and I'm sick of the lawn being fenced off at Pershing Square because of occupy & homeless. At a certain point, the residents that pay taxes need to take back their city and make it a pleasant place to live, work & play.

CASHEW on August 30, 2012, at 05:29PM – #15

Come on....

Kim (whom Ive met in person and can attest to her being a very with-it cat) has very valid points here and she isn't joking about knowing her downtown history. In fact, shes pretty much written a books worth and has educated thousands about it.

Personally though I disagree. I'm OK with more patrols and a crackdown for cleanliness.

During my native life here, Ive been peeped on in the bathroom, semi-violently panhandled in the underground parking and had to endure watching a man take a dump out in the open several feet away from me and my toddler son eating ice cream. Those experiences disturb the soul and must go.

I recently visited the new Grand Park and marveled at how friendly and civically respectful it was. Just then, I cringed at the thought of its imminent decline to a hard-boiled, edgy, and dirty open space like its downtown brethren, Pershing Square.

jonyedwards (@jonyedwards) on August 30, 2012, at 07:21PM – #16

" Pershing Square can be better than this," writes Ms. Cooper. Indeed, it can - but not by the policies she espouses. How does it make Pershing Square Park better by allowing the sort of anti-social behavior I, and many others, have witnessed and written about? If I am wrong Ms.Cooper, please correct me?

Does it make it better for the Park when a group of people set up an encampment, not to protest, as it's done at Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, in London, but to sleep most of the day in flea ridden sleeping bags? Does it make a better place when members of that encampment defecate and urinate in full public view? Does it make it a better place when members of that encampment take drugs and walk around the farmers' market strung out? Does it make the Park a better place when fights break out between the members of the encampment over alcohol and other issues? Does it make the Park a better place when sexual activity takes place in full public view? Does it make it a better place to see desperate, hungry people "dumpster diving" throughout the Park?

My answer to all the above questions is a resounding "no". But, if we are to believe Ms. Cooper's own words, that she was against the expulsion of those people who committed the acts I write of, then her answers to the questions must be a "yes". Based on that conclusion, its clear to me, at least, Ms. Cooper supports anti-social behavior.

When I look at the old photos of Pershing Square as exhibited on your own website, I cannot understand your argument, Ms. Cooper. Are you saying the natural successors of the protesters of that era are the people who were moved out of Pershing Square Park? What an insult to their memory!

Clearly Jeremiah Moss has an influence on you. Then you may want to reflect on his words taken from his NY Times commentary you pointed us to. He wrote, "Still, the idea was enticing: a public space above the hubbub, a contemplative space where nature softens the city's abrasiveness." Right on, Mr. Moss.

Not for a second do I believe you are pro-crime. But I don't think your views help in any way the group you ostensibly support, the homeless, to better their wretched lives.

NativeLA on August 31, 2012, at 08:53AM – #17

The problem is compassion for compassion's sake. A belief that a big heart is the cure for what ails a city like LA. That would have made sense several decades ago when the politics locally and nationally were very different. But not today.

Cities as disparate as San Francisco on one hand and Detroit on the other -- but which both are very similar in terms of how people in such communities vote and think -- and which have seen social problems not only not diminish through the years but actually worsen, are classic examples of that.

Kim Cooper on August 31, 2012, at 11:29AM – #18

Anyone who thinks the Pershing Square Task Force has been formed to deal with a homeless problem is naive.

The city demonstrably could not have cared less about this issue until after Occupy LA began to protest the privatization of public space as advocated by the Central City Association.

The forceful LAPD eviction of the protest camp surrounding City Hall, the alarming LAPD live-round response to the Chalk Walk protest at the July 12 Art Walk, the sudden interest in cleaning the filthy streets near Fourth and Towne (site of the Occupy Skid Row encampment) which has spread new encampments all around downtown (see particularly along the fences north of the Hall of Justice), and now the Pershing Square Task Force each serve to inhibit political protest and free expression.

It is much easier to do this sort of thing when something can be represented as a public health and safety issue, and as an emergency that has to be dealt with right now or else. I am not convinced that there is a public health emergency in Pershing Square, but I am deeply concerned that if we don't stop, examine the actual circumstances, and make some lawful, fair and reasonable decisions, we will have to answer for our haste.

One good step might be providing public restrooms in the park. (Cashew mentions being peeped on in one; is there presently a bathroom somewhere in the park?)

Having recently assisted a desperate and unwell Canadian tourist in her search for a public bathroom in this area--she ended up going into the Biltmore Hotel, where a security guard yelled at her--I can attest to a real need for such facilities. She, a university student in casual clothing, was unwelcome in a place of business facing the park. Where are our more shabby citizens supposed to go? (Yes, I am aware of the portable toilet on the sidewalk east of the park. There was a line of five people standing outside when we passed it, and she could not wait.)

We know that about $80,000 is being spent on solar trash compactors for the park. Might not some of that money be better spent on bathroom maintenance?

C D W on August 31, 2012, at 12:08PM – #19

There is a public restroom on the garage level under Pershing Square. There is a public restroom next to the subway entrance at 5th & Hill. There is a public restroom next to the subway entrance at 4th and Hill.

That makes 3 within 2 blocks.

I've lived downtown for 7 years and cannot count the number of times I've had to witness people urinating on my building, light posts, trash cans, the street. It's an absolutely disgusting 3rd world mentality downtown. Thank goodness someone is working to clean it up instead of ignoring it.

schabling on September 05, 2012, at 05:44PM – #20

@Kim Cooper. You are RIGHT the park is not private space. So people using it as a place to camp for 8 + hours a day, day in day out, taking up all the shade, dominating one area that for people that might like to occasionally sit and eat their lunch outside of the godforsaken heat. The space should be shared. There should be rules governing the flexibility of the space for all to share. Not for any one private group. You are so right, it's not for one group and one group only. I couldn't agree more!