A Little Late, but Finally the CRA Streetcar Study is Out

By Eric Richardson
Published: Thursday, September 07, 2006, at 01:39PM

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — Earlier this week the LA Times ran the unfortunately named ”In Los Angeles, the Desire of Some Is Named Streetcar. It talked about the release of the CRA’s plodding streetcar feasibility study, which I last covered back in December, when the Advisory Board last met. The study, which was planned to last six to eight months, was awarded last April.

This post would have been much more aptly timed yesterday, seeing as one year ago I had posted about possible routes the group had made up. This route imagining comprises a large part of the study document.

As I said back in December, this isn’t the time to worry about the details of “why would there be a stop here but not here.” From my December post:

The main question to ask is: would Downtown benefit from some manner of circulator streetcar? If yes, then we as the community should be strongly behind finding the funding for the second phase of this project.

That’s still true but the correctly phrased question might actually be: “Would the positives of a circulator streetcar for Downtown outweigh the negatives?” After all, any equation like this is going to have both its good and its bad sides.

Update (Sep 12th): The report is now posted on the CRA’s web site.

On the plus side you have fixed route transit as leverage for private investment, improved circulation and lessened dependence on the auto for intra-Downtown trips. On the minus you have costs and concerns about traffic.

I would love to have seen the study outreach and address more of those concerns at this phase. The traffic issue, for instance, is often brought up. There are those who say the streetcar will bring Downtown's autos to a halt because they're slow to stop and start and they have to stop for passengers. The study merely states:

In general, all the concepts for the streetcar are not expected to have major traffic impacts, as they will operate along existing streets in mixed flow traffic, and many of the alignments identified for this study are along streets where the historic streetcars once operated, which minimizes the amount of capital improvements that would be required. Using signal priority at selective intersections may enhance the operations. Minor street and lane adjustments may also be necessary for all concepts to accommodate enhancements such as stop platforms and pedestrian access.

That's a nice generalized statement, but it's not going to convince anyone who holds the other opinion.

I would counter the traffic argument by looking at the buses that run through Downtown. Dwell times -- the time a bus or train is at a stop -- is going to be basically the same whether you're talking about a bus or a trolley, so the argument comes down to stopping and starting speed. The study lists streetcar acceleration at 3mph/sec. What's the operating acceleration on a bus? I don't know offhand, but if it's 3mph/sec or less that would seem to present a factual way to counter the traffic argument.

Bottom line is that coming up with $60 - $70 million to build this is probably going to be more of a challenge than convincing people Downtown that it could be a good idea.

Old posts on this topic:

12/06/2004: Red Car RFP
04/11/2005: Red Car Study Ready to Roll
06/06/2005: First Meeting of Red Car Board
09/06/2005: Imagining Red Car Routes
12/06/2005: Streetcars in Downtown's Future?

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Comments

Dana Gabbard writes:

I haven't had a chance to read the report, which Andrew Moyle at the Downtown News was nice enough to forward to me.

It would be useful to learn what the experience had been in other cities that have such systems. I have generally heard good things about the Portland, Oregon streetcar (funded by adjacent property owners, who have found its proximity increased value).

We know from Scott Bottles book Los Angeles and the Automobile that the streetcars in the old days slowed down to a crawl when they reached downtown. The railroads at one point even offered to elevate the tracks downtown as an alternative to having a Union Station. Problems with traffic helped kill the Red and Yellow cars.

Funding also seems tricky. MTA is supportive but is offering no money. And I think the fundamental question is is the purpose transportation or a tourist amenity?

# on Sep.07.2006 AT 02:43 PM

Eric Richardson writes:

Dana: You will enjoy reading the report since it does get into both other cities' experiences and funding.

In regard to the transit vs. tourist question, the answer from the get-go has been: both. If you look at both my posts from June and December you'll see that I took that away from both meetings. Local population is a base ridership, vistors and tourists build on top of that.

# on Sep.07.2006 AT 02:58 PM

Dana Gabbard writes:

One thing I mentioned to Moyle when we talked was this is an issue that does resonate with the public. The two times the Transit Advocates had presentations on this concept more members of the public attended than anything else we did (save have Mike Dukakis speak). That is an advantage few proposals have, and hopefully proponents will know how to make use of something so invaluable.

# on Sep.07.2006 AT 03:27 PM

Whitman Lam writes:

The Trolley is worth the investment. Places like the Fashion District (Arguably the best shopping secret in L.A.) and Echo Park are so hard to get to that they do not draw the potential visitors, and thus are neglected and forgotten. Think of it this way, whenever a tourist visits Disney Concert hall, he or she will also visit the Fashion District and buy a shirt,shoes, or purse.(Traffic and parking are severely limited here so a Trolley will definitely help)

The tax revenue accumulates and pays for the construction and operating cost of the Trolleys. Big plus is the enhancement of nightlife if Trolleys can run at late night hours. This discourages crime and makes for more street activity.

# on Sep.08.2006 AT 08:43 PM

Scott Mercer writes:

There are almost no streets in downtown where streetcars DIDN'T run previously. So obviously it's feasible to do. If it could be done in 1910, it can be done now, obviously.

The only issue is overcrowding, and, oddly, downtown was MUCH MORE CROWDED in 1910 than it is now. If you don't believe me I can show you some pictures. There were thousands more people working in downtown then and living in nearby neighborhoods.

I should note that we're not talking about LIGHT RAIL trains here, like the Blue Line trains. Those would be huge and dominate the streetscape. We're talking about single streetcars that would probably be slightly smaller than a city bus that currently uses most of the streets downtown in mixed. Probably slightly larger than a DASH bus.

The biggest selling point for having some level of streetcar service (in my opinion) is the fact that these are 100% electric. You're substituting a bus with internal combustion engine (even CNG buses release SOME emissions) for a zero emission electric vehicle (streetcar).

Is there anywhere online where the proposed routes can be viewed?

# on Sep.11.2006 AT 10:23 AM

Eric Richardson writes:

Scott: CRA says they're working on getting the report up on their website. It would seem like that wouldn't take too long, but we'll see.

# on Sep.11.2006 AT 10:42 AM

Dana Gabbard writes:

It is now posted:

http://www.crala.net/internet-site/Documents/upload/Red%20Trolley%20Feasibility%20Study.pdf

# on Sep.12.2006 AT 03:15 PM