Students Protest, May or May Not Know Why

eecue on March 27, 2006, at 05:00PM – #1

All the kids I talked to knew exactly why they were protesting. They were afraid for the parents and worried about the potential repercussions that HR4437 would create. After MAV spoke to them and asked them to go home, they probably should have listened, but hey, you can't blame them for being kids.

Don GArza on March 27, 2006, at 05:16PM – #2

These kids knew exactly why they were there.

These are immigrants or have pareents who are immigrants. They ran toward Villaraigosa wehen as if he was the second coming of Jesus Christ himself when they saw him come out of City Hall .

They want comfort , they are afraid that they will be labeled criminals and or their parnets hauled away for being a felon.

They spoke very well.

We will be building a berlin wall without the wall , because families will be seperated if this law is enforceable.

Dave in Downtown on March 27, 2006, at 07:54PM – #4

What pissed me off is the Mexican flags. Apparently, they're not that interested in America. I could appreciate it if they exhibited some love of their "home", but they clearly don't give a shit.

Don Garza on March 27, 2006, at 10:58PM – #5

Children have a tendency to express their feelings different from adults being mor honeest

why were they carrying these flags? It is obvious to me. It isn't because they don't love america it is because they are expressing what they feel . Like they are not wanted. Thus the different flags. It is a way of saying please except me as who I am . This is where I come from or where my parents come from and I am proud of my roots and I love my parents even if you won't accept them . They might come from Guatemala , mexico , panama, el salavador , nicarauga and even if you reject them I am proud of them. Will you accept my roots? They feel rejected thus this may be a symbol of throwing it in our faces and the faces of congress that their love for their parents will not end. Even if their parents are labeled felons and criminals these children will still love their parents nad be proud of them for giving them a better life.

As for the kids arriving . They came from very far away. They walked. MAny who arrived in the San Fernando Valley traveled almost 20 miles walking. Takes a while to get to City Hall from Hollywood.

Sto on March 28, 2006, at 03:45AM – #6

No Eric is right. These kids didn't know what the f*ck they're we're doing. These kids were just looking for an excuse to get roudy. I was driving with my girlfriend down 1st and they a swarm of them flooded the streets, bring traffic to a halt. Then they started coming up to our window yelling "LATINO PRIDE" and started pushing the car. WTF is that? Protesting against an Immigration law by trying to intimidate people and damagining with peoples cars?

I later went out with my camera to film the whole thing, and once again, thousands of Mexicans yelling 'latino pride'. I like how when Mexicans say 'latino pride', no one thinks anything of it, but when a white man says 'white pride', everyone flips out and goes OGM!!! RACIST!!!

Cant wait for this law to get passed...

cate... on March 28, 2006, at 10:05AM – #7

yes and no...

i am a teacher. and i'm seeing first-hand what they are doing. while many know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it, most do not. a large portion of my students are using this as pretense to behave chaotically. however, i am also at a middle school, where the students are younger, and less likely to have fully formulated opinions about what is going on. i'm using this as a teaching moment, by making sure that they understand that hr 4437 affects all of us, immigrant or not, and most importantly, the right and wrong ways to go about protesting.

Joel C on March 28, 2006, at 10:32AM – #8

I was involved in similar protests when I was in high school. I think the motives are definitely mixed. On the one hand, it is about expressing pride as a person of color, how often do you get to do that? On the other hand, there is certainly an element that is simply anti-authority, "I'm breaking the law and the rules and I'm getting away with it" euphoria. It's also, for many, a once in a lifetime experience with friends to be on the news.

It is all of these things, not either/or.

Unfortunately, I believe the way these student walkouts were done damages the cause. What most people see when they watch this behavior is not immigrants showing their pride, but rather spoiled self-important children. As an opponent of the House bill, I am troubled by this image, because many unsophisticated newswatchers will then associate all immigrants with the actions of these kids.

On the news last night I saw students stealing flags from a store as they began their protest. How does this help the cause?

TerryM on March 28, 2006, at 10:45AM – #9

I wish a lot of the Latino community would be as up in arms about the high percentages of their sons and daughters who aren't academically oriented, who don't graduate from school, who don't pursue the best or most productive path possible in life.

If current trends in higher learning don't start changing for the better, in which the number of Latino students who do well in school or who comprise the enrollees at college campuses (compared with, for example, Asian or Anglo kids) is no longer such an embarrassment, then southern California is going to flop in the future.

Nona on March 28, 2006, at 11:23AM – #10

I don't understand why certain folks get so bent out of shape about Mexican flags. Not too long ago it was St. Patricks Day and tons of people go around with t-shirts, hats etc. that promote Irish culture. There are even huge parades dedicated to specifically to Irish. Does anyone think these people ahould go back to Ireland cause they love it so much? Geesh!

Jennifer on March 28, 2006, at 01:46PM – #11

If these kids are concerned about what Congress is doing about illegal immigration, perhaps they should have watched C-SPAN's coverage of the Senate Judiciary Committee's markup of the draft bill instead of skipping school and disrupting traffic. Being informed may help them to discuss the issue intelligently, which would help further their cause. I don't think their tactics won anyone over to their side. If anything, it drove middle of the road people over to the other side. You don't want otherwise reasonable people thinking that maybe what the Minutemen are doing isn't so wrong after all.

Nona on March 28, 2006, at 02:25PM – #12

The organizers of the protest on Saturday asked everyone to bring American flags to the march. I've never seen so many American flags in my life! Despite this, you still get comments like those above all bent out of shape about the Mexican flags. Kids getting roudy? Wow, what a surprise. Our society is so hypocritical. When college students celebrate their winning basketball teams, they rampage through their little towns burning cars and causing mayhem. But do you judgemental folks like Jennifer and Sto think I should apply your same logic to them? Should Latinos judge a whole culture based on the actions of White college kids?

Sto on March 28, 2006, at 03:28PM – #14

HAHA, since when is celebrating comparable to protesting!?! I think what Jennifer means is that if you�re gonna take a stance against the government and make a scene, you might wanna think twice before acting like a bunch of juvenile shitheads on national television.

And are you seriously trying to say that only white college kids get rowdy after winning a game? Or are you just implying that the majority of the kids in college are white.

The latter of 2 is correct.

Nona on March 28, 2006, at 05:29PM – #16

So what's the big deal if they carry Mexican Flags? It's an expression of their culture. The same way Irish folks use Shamrocks or Brazilians plaster everything in yellow and green. Do you really think their use of Mexican flag implies some allegiance to the government of Mexico? Many of these students are protesting because they feel threatened and discriminated against. It's their way of asserting themselves and their family's culture. And don't forget these students are TEENAGERS. Since when have teenagers acted in ways that adults approve of? I take issue with people who are using these students as a way to judge a whole culture and community of people. Are you judging the people of France based on the student uprisings there? Are these rioting students giving French culture a bad name? Sto, you obviously have some kind of anti-Latino bias. Why did you move to Los Angeles? The name itself should have given you an idea of the kind of people who live here.

Don GArza on March 28, 2006, at 05:50PM – #17

I think I will be bringing a huge Irish flag during the next march.

ANyone want to bring an British Flag and even a canadian flag . Might want to think about bringing a huge .

Let me put it to you this way. What if Iranian flags showed up ? I am sure these caucasians would say the same things.

Losing their powerbase is frightening and this legislation which was proposed was their way of trying to protect themselves from the so called "LAtin Invasion"

I am in agreement with one of the children who elucidated that this legislation was going to be a legalization of racism.

cate... on March 28, 2006, at 06:02PM – #18

on the topic of multinational flags:

i don't believe there is anything wrong with having a sense of cultural pride. nationalism is something different. i'm proud to be a child of poor immigrants. i'm proud of my culture and my heritage, i'm proud of my ethnic history. however, i'm also very aware that conditioned sucked so badly that my parents had to leave. and conditions continue to suck so badly that i won't be going back. i'm also very grateful that this country took me and my family in, gave us opportunities and allowed me to become educated. on that note, had i been there on saturday, i would've had both flags waving. one stating pride in my ethnicity, and another demonstrating pride in the nation that i participate in.

Don GArza on March 28, 2006, at 06:34PM – #19

I will look for a huge Texas Flag considering that is my country of Origin. ;) and of course a galician flag too.

I am proud of my ethnic roots of being a texan

Nona on March 28, 2006, at 06:43PM – #20

Oops, so sorry about the mulitple postings. Maybe the blog owner can remove them? Oh and cate, many people at the march did carry both the American flag and the flag of their cultural origins. Don Garza, that's so funny! I told my friend I wish I had a Californian flag since I am fourth generation Angelina.

Jennifer Solis on March 28, 2006, at 06:57PM – #21

Forget School � Let�s Go March

OK, I�ll admit it � I was one of the half-million congesting downtown on Saturday. My mother, who also went along, did so because many of her friends were marching, and it was a great social occasion.

For me, it was an opportunity to interface with about four dozen other students and confirm my suspicions that almost none of the participants knew anything about US history and culture.

The organizers of the march are the usual collection of �Reconquistas� and multi-culturalists who networked very effectively for weeks to get this turn-out. I must have received at least a dozen e-mails every day from different friends and groups reminding me to put the event on my calendar. Others were barraged with telephone calls stating that it was an �obligation� to show up and be counted.

I wish the students who cut class today (Monday) would be out in the streets every day to draw attention to this problem of immigration. The only way the issue can invade the public consciousness is to make the evening news on television.

The immigration bill that passed the House has two obvious flaws: making felons out of people who have been living and working here for years; and making criminals out of churches and their leaders, as well as other �Good Samaritan� groups.

I suspect that Rep. Sensenbrenner deliberately placed those clauses into his legislation so that he would have something to �give away� when the House and Senate versions arrive for compromise in a few weeks. The Senate bill that passed today is nothing but an amnesty procedure which even our President Vincente Bush says is unacceptable.

My mother took the �coyote express� to Los Angeles two decades ago because her family in Honduras had been swindled out of the family farm, and Mom had to help support her parents and four siblings. Upon arrival, she immediately learned English, and became a US citizen at the first opportunity. Before long, she was assistant manager of a chain variety store.

When I entered Union Avenue Elementary, Mom went over and insisted that I not be in any bilingual class, but rather placed in English immersion. Before that, she had obtained for me a public library card and made certain that I used it constantly. We spoke nothing but English at home until I was 12, and I was not allowed to watch Spanish television, even though Mom was addicted to the nightly novellas. She still is.

The point of all this is that the difference between the more than sixty percent of Hispanics that drop out of high school and the five percent that graduate from college has nothing to do with the schools, the teachers and especially the thousands of dollars per pupil poured into the educational black hole we call the LAUSD.

The almost universal ignorance of the students that were chanting �Si, se puede� as they marched up Broadway, in regards to the language, culture and political realities of their adopted nation, speaks volumes about the failure of most of their families to assimilate, and therefore succeed in these difficult times of globalization and economic uncertainty.

The marches have created short term sympathy for the illegal immigrants (excuse me � I mean undocumented), but the net result will be to reinforce in the minds of a vast majority of the American population of the need to do something about out-of-control borders and the issue of sovereignty.

Don Garza on March 28, 2006, at 07:59PM – #22

Being that conservatism in Texas has liberal sentiments. I living in California have had to aasimilate. I love Los Angeles and California but limousine liberals really hmake me sick, but i have grown to tolerate them and their hypocrisy and Their bleeding hearts yet when the crap hits the fan they are like those whom they accuse of being heartless.

Take the homelessness issue. they cry that we must do something about the problem and save the children of skid row, but when it comes time to put a stabilization center in their suburban or even near their suburban enclave they shut the door.

Jennefer you speak in generalizations that all of those kids are not assimilating becuase their parents haven't assimilated. My cousins two of them prominent attorneys are lamenting the fact that my aunt and uncle would not speak spanish to them, and with Spanish surnames they are cognizant of the much business they lose. This is what a global economy is all about. The kids I met spoke both english and spanish an advantage in a global economy , and how about the article in the LA Times about these immigrants learning korean and Chinese not to mention learning english too.

I don't see how only speaking one language will help someone survice in a global economy.

I myself am a total idiot myself. I learn languages quickly , yet the older I get the brain is getting slower and with all of he time I have I should be learning Japanese and Chinese and korean myself.

In my house they only would speak English , but because I wanted to be able to communicate with my grandparents I learned spanish very well.

As far as the reconquista people I read about that too. But they are way off. It isn't about reconquista it is about survival.

My philosophy about what America is , might be much different as most. The United States of America to me means it is a stepping stone for other countries and nations to learn from.

Imagine kids leaving to MArch in other countries. we saw it on television tonight. Here we got to see that they know they have freedom of expression. If you understand our country you would know kids do not have rights . Yet their rights were resepcted irregardless of that fact .A social event . Whatever.

I can not assume nor make assumptions about the feelings of others and their motives. No one told me it was my responsibility to be there. I have never listened to spanish radio in LOs Angeles.

When people started walking on 5th street going to a march I knew then it was important very important.

To tell me i can not help my neighbor because they are undocumented and I would be a criminal for doing so tells me there was a problem with the bill. This I agree with ,that maybe the provisions were a ruse and a way to give something away.

carlos on March 29, 2006, at 01:45AM – #23

hmmm... i was at the historic march on saturday, and i happened to be at the student protest on monday and tuesday as well. what seems to be missing from your comments above is why the students are protesting in the first place. i talked with some of them and listened to others speak, and it was apparent that many knew why they were protesting, and yes, others were there "just because," or to cause trouble. of the ones who were there simply to cause trouble, so what? they are students, what do you expect? were you so upset and wondering where the mothers of the jewish settlers were when the israeli army stormed the settlements recently, and many young kids attacked the soldiers with acid and stones? there is always an element of disruption at any protest/gathering. your being over critical. to get back to my topic here, the reasons why the students are upset is because the kids and their families and communities are being terrorized by vigilanties like the minutemen and the sensenbrenner bill. some of them were born here, but their parents, cousins, uncles, abuelos were not. the sensenbrenner bill attempts to turn family members against one another, by making it a felony to assist an "illegal" migrant. so if your cousin spends a few days with you, you are considered a smuggler. how inhumane! cities like costa mesa want the police to check out the residency status of people they interact with. who do you think they will profile? the european or the canadian? no, they will suspect all those of mexican and "central american" backgrounds. it will drive a wedge between the mexican/"central american" community and the police. remember the last time the community/police relationship was in shambles? i do, 1992.

someonewalksinla on March 29, 2006, at 10:56AM – #24

if I knew walking in LA was to become an important social metaphor to redefine a citys identity of public reaction to what some call social injustice, and others call exposure of a invasion; i would have created my name in upper case

and all witnessed by this and other LA blogs with commentary and interpetation aided by digital cameras of various pixel sizes - viva resolution!

sto on March 29, 2006, at 11:23AM – #25

Nona, I live in LA because I am a filmmaker. As for what I film...I'll leave that to your imagination�.

Nona on March 29, 2006, at 11:53AM – #26

Sto, I figured as much...Maybe it isn't such a bad thing the film industry is moving to Canada. About your films, let me guess...a remake of Birth of a Nation?

Carlos, Thanks for your comments. Well said! Abrazos!

Visitor on March 29, 2006, at 03:26PM – #27

I just read this on the net....

(I)n a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post -- Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively -- laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter.

Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes:

"Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers. Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.

Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote:

"Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive. As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed -- citing a leading Harvard study -- "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.'

brisa reyes on March 29, 2006, at 05:55PM – #28

I think the kids did right 2 march in the streets we are going to keep sciping school so that the law won't happen.although kids should hold out american flags to show pride in america."OH" and mexicans don't suck because we work hard to live here and we do the hardest work aroud TEXAS,OR AMERICA.So i agree with the kids who skipped school.

Stan N. on March 29, 2006, at 09:59PM – #29

To begin, I am an 15 year old in Winnipeg, Canada. I am of mixed race, Polish, Ukrainian, Filipino, and Spanish. Although, I was born in Canada, I moved to South Central Los Angeles when I was 10 and have just recently moved back to Canada. The reason being immigration. I was a legal immigrant. My parents were LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They worked so hard and payed so much to get into the states. These protests are just a bunch of fanaticism spun up by a select few. The general group of people out there are ignorant. Ask them a question on why there doing it and they'll and anwser America hates us...etc. What there doing is disgusting. Their parents come into a country ILLEGALLY, have them, who become citizens because of birth (which almost no other developed countries have), then they f'ing complain when politicians step up and say, "No more breaking laws". Well too bad for them. If they don't like the laws of the red, white, and blue they can leave.

David Kennedy on March 31, 2006, at 03:59PM – #30

I think what troubles many Americans about marchers carrying the Mexican flag as they protest is that it is not really clear why. Essentially, as illegal immigrants, they are demanding the full rights of citizens without going through the legal process. Further, by carrying the flag, the marchers seem to continue to pledge allegiance to Mexico. They seem to be saying, I want the benefits of U.S. citizenship, but I still value my home country over America. This sense of divided allegiance bothers many American citizens because it seems the protestors' desire for citizenship seems more a matter of convenience than true love for America. The image that sticks in my mind is from Montebello High School where the Mexican flag was run up the flag pole with the U.S. flag underneath it and upside down. I'd like to hear a defense of that.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm

Also, the demand for legalization irks me because I've spent the past two years working with my attorney to resolve my wife's immigration status. It seems my decision to resolve the matter legally was foolish and my money wasted.

dsperey on March 31, 2006, at 05:38PM – #31

adults don't take young adults seriously, particularly minorities. taking a stand for something that affects them is important and should be appreciated. albeit, many students took advantage of the situation to get out of class, however this moment in time was a liberating learning experience for these oppressed students. if they didn't express themselves, toxic energy would build up and could have resulted in some disastrous results! (remember LA RIOTS?) there are MANY students that do care about the state of affairs and for them to walk out, talk to local politicians was important and necessary. Society, particularly in the City of Angels, is noticing that there is a large presence of People of Color.

David Kennedy on April 04, 2006, at 12:04PM – #32

I know we've discussed/commented this topic ad nauseum. However, this link is very interesting. I was amazed to learn the Mexican constitution expressly forbids non-citizens to participate in the country�s political life. Thus, if hundreds of thousands of foreigners in Mexico wanted to demonstrate, it would not be allowed(!). Food for thought.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf