David Kennedy on April 16, 2008, at 05:47PM – #1

Another city which has a vital street car system is Toronto. Toronto never dismantled their street car system when this was the rage in public transit planning. The city benefited from this 'mistake'. It is difficult to imagine Toronto's urban fabric without the venerable street cars.

I think part of the reason why the street cars work so well in Toronto is because they feed into the backbone of the public transit system -- the subway lines. Shifting from the subway to a streetcar is easy and logical. Riding the streetcars is not simply a joyride. The system is very practical.

I'd also note that a street car line servicing Bunker Hill might be an option in the long run to connect this elevated location to the rest of downtown to pedestrians.

Jerard on April 16, 2008, at 06:24PM – #2

I hope that delegation comes back with an understanding of how Portland routed their streetcar along a major corridor and tie as many points together in as few turns as possible.

Los Angeles can do the same thing with a starter streetcar along Hill and Broadway Streets from the Chinatown Gold Line station and or Music Center down to Fashion District and or The Sports and Entertainment District (aka LA Live/Staples Center) via Olympic Blvd.

From this starter route future route corridors can be:
* Glendale Blvd/2nd or 1st Street from Echo Park down to Broadway/Central City East.
* Wilshire Blvd/7th Street from MacArthur Park to Fashion District, mimicing the busy DASH Route E.

Where the streetcar system will serve a practical need rather then creating a flashy tourist shuttle.

David Kennedy on April 16, 2008, at 06:50PM – #3

I agree with Jerad's suggestion of keeping the route as simple as possible and plugged in to the rail system. Such a practical routing scheme would serve downtown residents, businesses, shoppers and tourists. He is correct -- seeking to appeal to a specific demographic could lead to poor choices of routes and undermine usage. I'd point out that Toronto's routes do exactly this.

I love the idea of extensions servicing Echo Park and MacArthur Park. I often hanker to head out to these places with the kids. I'd also add an extension to Pico-Union. The Pico buses bring a large contingent of residents (like my mother-in-law) into downtown for work and shopping.

affrojuice on April 16, 2008, at 10:55PM – #4

I just got back from Prague, and that city has the most functional, convenient, and well used street car system of any city i have ever been in. Their are 26 day routes that get you quickly to any part of the city. The street cars are also coordinated with the subway system as far as drop locations and timing. I never personally saw auto traffic, even in the rush hours in Prague, but the street cars and subways were full to the point of standing room only. I kept on thinking when I was looking at all the people packed in the street cars, that in LA, each of these people would be have a car on the road, and be sitting in unbearable traffic.

whitman lam on April 16, 2008, at 11:57PM – #5

Portland and Seattle are also well known for their outdoor farmer's markets, fresh fish markets, and bicycle/pedestrian friendliness. Perhaps our city leaders should take all of the sights in and copy it here in downtown LA. After all, you need destinations for people to ride to....

Don Garza on April 17, 2008, at 01:52AM – #6

Actually , I have lived in both cities and have to say that Seattle Tacoma has one of the best bus systems in the world. I loved riding the bus out there. Seattle had Tacoma had subway shops in the neighbordhoods. Great place to live if you can afford it. Portland is also a great pedestrian friendly city. I used to visit portland a lot since I lived only 40 minutes drive north on the river.

One of the largest differences is that both of those cities have some sort of large waterfront next to their downtowns and we do not. Portland has a river run through it or rather next to it and Seattle has the Pacific Ocean.

But I loved both cities for their pedestrian friendly ways.

Eric, if you ride through KElso on the AMtrack from Portland get some photos from the train of the cowlitz river, actually the train will stop in kelso, Washington - don't get off the train to take photos quick stop there -to pick up passengers and or drop them off.

The tracks run right next to that river. The cowlitz is a dead river , it died after Mt. St Helens erupted. You should still be able to see snow on the mountains and make sure you get photos of mt. rainier if you go on the top of any skyscrapers in Downtown Seattle. Test that SLR right. Beautiful shots if you can get them.

Don Garza on April 17, 2008, at 02:13AM – #7

THe cowlitz is alive. I guess at the time I was living there in the mid 90s we still couldn't fish.

Jason Burns on April 17, 2008, at 09:55AM – #8

I'm confused.. Is the Downtown streetcar going to be a modern system along the likes of Portland's, or a revived replica of the Red Cars?

I'm wondering why this delegation isn't heading North to San Francisco?

Don Noyes-More on April 17, 2008, at 12:26PM – #9

Joyfully I remember as a kid the truly great transportation system LA had, one of the very best. I actually rode the last streetcar ("P" Car) down Vermont in the 60's. For those interested in riding old LA Tollys and Streetcars, take a day trip to the Orange Empire Train Museum in Perris CA. They run all the old cars that rode on LA streets ). A great family day trip for the kids too.

Supporting Light Rail.

Don Noyes-More, Editor in Chief, http://downtownlalife.com

LAofAnaheim on April 17, 2008, at 01:05PM – #11

I surely do hope LA officials see the benefit of streetcars. The unfortunate thing is...when LA plans for a new transportation improvement, they have to think of the negative auto impacts. Unlike other cities where they focus on moving people, we think about the impacts to the personal auto. Why is there no bus lanes (eventhough some streets have 4 lanes in each way!), b/c the other lanes would go slower. Same with a streetcar. What we need in LA is the political will to push public transit projects and not note the 'negative aspects for the personal auto'.

Scott Mercer on April 17, 2008, at 11:09PM – #12

Personally, I would prefer the modern streetcars. They are more flexible than the old style ones (whether restored originals, or "recreations"), with low floors, air conditioning and greater capacity. Easier handicapped access also.

There's even a company, Oregon Iron Works, started to supply streetcars for Portland, so these modern streetcars could even be built in America (though I believe the company is partially owned by the Czech company that designed the streetcars).

milo on April 19, 2008, at 11:13AM – #13

Before everyone in LA gets excited about streetcars running on downtown streets, I think it would be good to visit San Jose. I work in San Jose and try to use public transit as much as possible.

In San Jose running rail lines through downtown streets has made them slower (becuase they have to compete with car traffic) and makes mass transit less likely to be used. In designing a transit system, it is important to look at the overall scale of the city. Seattle and Portland are much more compact than LA or San Jose.

Wad on April 19, 2008, at 04:18PM – #15

San Jose's light rail has a part in downtown where it runs at about 10 mph. It runs like a streetcar.

See these Flickr photos:

Ron Milam on May 08, 2008, at 11:03PM – #16

I'm excited to hear a delegation from LA is going up to Portland and Seattle to learn more about how streetcars play an important role in transforming urban environments into more livable places.

The Streetcar Conference happening in LA on May 22nd is actually taking place in the Orpheum Theater (not the LA Theater). More information about the training can be found at .