neboudesu on June 13, 2008, at 12:15PM – #1

I love that park! I bring my boys there all the time! It's about time that the city invests some more money into its parks. Hey, I was wondering if any of you heard of Amma, "The Hugging Saint of India." She will be in Los Angeles next week to hug hunfdreds and hundreds of Angelenos. She was out here last year causing a lot of controversy because she held her event in a boycotted hotel. Check this video about what happened at:

Brian on June 13, 2008, at 12:48PM – #2

I was over in Pershing square the other night for the downtown dog walk, and as we waited for others to arrive my wife and I talked about the park itself. It's all concrete, there is nothing to attract people there to hang out, and it has become a hangout for the homeless.

I think getting some greenery is a great idea but it will only be for a small section if I understand correctly. And workout equipment? Who is going to work out there in the middle of Pershing Square?

I'm no urban planner but I'd think the best idea would be to take out all the concrete and the fountain, put in as many trees and as much grass as you can and keep it a place for downtown residents and business people to hang out before, during and after work.

Li on June 13, 2008, at 01:17PM – #4

The exercise equipment is wonderful, but I'd also like to see a playground. The only playground downtown is behind FIDM--a wonderful space but we need more like it.The Douglas building alone has eight families and they have to drive their kids to the park because there's no playground nearby.

Melanie on June 13, 2008, at 01:20PM – #5

Yeah - Pershing is a sad little place. We've renamed it "Concrete Park."

Joe Cornish on June 13, 2008, at 01:25PM – #6

Well, this is a disappointment. I just love that dirt patch. It's so much fun kicking up clouds of dust when I walk through it and I always get a kick seeing Ruby turn from white to brown.

Brian on June 13, 2008, at 01:25PM – #7

Eric: Thanks for everything you do by the way.

I agree they can't do the park the way it probably should be done for $190,000. No doubt about it.

I'd love to see the new park done up the right way, but it sounds like years before this will become a reality.

Li: FIDM is a great park as well, we live across the street from it. It is a little disappointing they don't allow dogs however. And for that reason alone I have yet to be in Grand Hope Park for the first three months I've lived here.

Urban Bruin on June 13, 2008, at 01:40PM – #8

Since the final plan has not been approved I think we should contact both Councilwoman Perry's Office and Dept. of Rec. and Parks to let them know what we want. I've sent a letter and hope you will join.

I've been working on a proposal for a small off-leash dog run on that location. Pershing Square is a great public space and very central to all neighborhoods of downtown.

Utah Phillips Jr. on June 13, 2008, at 02:08PM – #9

Send a letter to your representative:

No dog turds!

brian on June 13, 2008, at 02:12PM – #10

This is frustrating. They are using QUIMBY funds to upgrade a park that will eventually be completely redone anyway? Why can't they put the 190K towards a permanent pocket park instead of wasting it on something that will soon be torn out? Ugh!!!!! Help me understand the thinking here.

Norbie 7 on June 13, 2008, at 02:17PM – #11

Take down those pink cylinders so that everyone can see the beefcake, just like at Venice Beach. Get Golds Gym involved and it'll be a happening place.

Pink and beefcake just doesn't mix.

Reset the cannon so it sits at 75 degrees upright. Yahoo!

Urban Bruin on June 13, 2008, at 02:19PM – #12

Utah,

If you visit any dog park in any city around the world you’ll see that they are the most community oriented places. People from every part of that community come and congregate, make new friends, share ideas and become involved in the community.

I get that some people are not “pet people” but the reality is many people are and since all but a few people downtown have “yards” we have to take them for walks on leash on the streets. It would be nice after a long day or week our dogs can enjoy some off-leash exercise in a safe (fenced) environment while us owners can also relax and meet our neighbors.

Everyone, please feel free to join us for our monthly dog walk at Pershing Square. We meet on the second Wednesday of the month at 6 pm.

David Kennedy on June 13, 2008, at 02:49PM – #13

I think Brian's right. Why spend money if the park is going to be redone anyways?

Yes, playground equipment would be a welcome addition.

For those families in the Douglas Building, in addtiion to Grand Hope, there's a playground at the Cathedral.

Brian on June 13, 2008, at 02:55PM – #14

With all due respect, who would take their kids there if playground equipment was installed? I am not sure how many mothers and fathers want their sons and daughters playing amongst the homeless and smell of urine. Pershing Square, in the present state, is not a place for families really.

JM on June 13, 2008, at 03:01PM – #16

Here's what Pershing Square looked like back in the day:

What on earth happened?!? How could it have become the ugliest park I've ever seen (possibly in the world)?? I wouldn't hang out in Pershing Square if you paid me. Time to raze it and plant some green stuff (i.e., plants and trees). In the meantime, it looks like a great dog park...

JM on June 13, 2008, at 03:11PM – #18

Thanks Eric, although that makes me want to cry.

Utah Phillips Jr. on June 13, 2008, at 03:34PM – #19

No dog turds. Divine might come back from the dead and then we're in trouble. Especially if that dork who runs 'Focus On The Family' were to find out about it.

Instead of those Snow Cones at the 9th & Main median, they should have put in big plastic Pink Flamingoes (if you know what I mean).

Brian on June 13, 2008, at 04:02PM – #20

Wow, those are some interesting pictures to say the least.

David Kennedy on June 13, 2008, at 04:08PM – #21

Brian, the question ought to be why is rudimentary law and order not maintained in Pershing Square? Why is a public square allowed to fall into a state where normal people fear to go? Without resolving this question of public order, all design issues will be rendered completely moot. In fact, any investment to improve the park will be squandered.

I'd point out that Grand Hope Park has no such problems and the homeless hang out there, too.

Russell Brown on June 13, 2008, at 04:24PM – #22

Pershing Square "improvements".

Just for the record, there has been 18 months of heated debate and audits at unbundling the Quimby fees issue downtown. Just as those meetings have began to show some accountability to the public, Parks & Rec moves to spend $190K on improvements that no community group has expressed any interest in?

After many many public meetings, the community has always mentioned dog parks, amenities for kids and familes and for the arts. The Downtown LA Neighborhood Council, the DLANC Parks committee, the Historic Downtown BID, The Downtown Center BID, Center City Association, the Pershing Square Parks Advisory Board, and Jan Perry were never informed on any of this.

Some level of public involvement and comment is required here.

Now it is fast tracked in the middle of the busiest summer program series? Seems city government really is as clueless as one imagines. Let's build something that no one wants, and then redesign it all again in 3 years when millions will be spent on the park in a re-design? How about all the brown spots in the grass from dog urine already? Shouldn't that be a clue that a dog park area is needed?

This is as good as the "greening of the LA River" with an antiquated industrial land use policy that encourages the same abandoned streers, railroad tracks, discourages work-force housing and transit in the Arts District, all in the name of economic development. Donna Reed still lives somewhere out there.

Urban Bruin on June 13, 2008, at 04:32PM – #23

I think the problem is like asking which came first "the chicken or the egg". The design for Pershing Square is bad, people don't feel safe, transients hangout all hours of the day and night.

To fix the problem the city needs to redesign the park with things that people use. Open lawn, benches, kids play area, fenced Dog Park, etc. With more people using the park (residents and weekday workers) all the things we don't like about the park will go away. With more use there will be more attention to safety, sanitation and programming.

David Kennedy on June 13, 2008, at 04:54PM – #24

UB, I wish I shared your absolute faith in the power of design to ensure public order in any future designs of Pershing Square. I agree, good design is very powerful. I'm not sure it is that powerful. Life would be much simpler if it were so.

Moreover, am I to understand that, given Pershing Square's considerable design failings, the establishment of public order here is not possible?

Brady Westwater on June 13, 2008, at 05:23PM – #25

This complete waste of public money is DOA. As Russell said, the community was totally kept in the dark on this project until it passed as a consent item by the Rec and Parks board, but the city council will now step in and stop Parks and Rec from throwing away $190,000 on a project that would be ripped up in a few years anyway. Then the community can give input on what we want in our park.

brian on June 13, 2008, at 06:12PM – #26

"I'd assume the full Pershing Square redesign is at least 3 - 4 years off. That's an eternity for Downtown. Why should we be content with an underutilized park for that long?"

Why should we be content with $190,000 from QUIMBY funds being spent on a 3-4 year TEMPORARY project that NO ONE from downtown (via citizen organizations) has asked for? Why not demand a PERMANENT green space from this money for the people who live here? Why should we accept dumb, irresponsible planning for the sake of just getting something done? Eric, does this not frustrate you? You're in the thick of this. You know these people. After reading Russel's comment, I don't know how anyone could be content with a 3-4 year waste of this money.

Help me understand.

Trevortt on June 13, 2008, at 06:51PM – #27

Even if Pershing Square looked like a cross between Big Sur, Yosemite and Yellowstone Park, it will continue to be at the mercy of homeless-rights activists and all the people they're supposedly sympathetic about (for example, schizoid bag ladies).

Moreover, the prevailing sentiment in the city is one of egalitarianism, non-elitism and compassion for compassion's sake, and so while many Angelenos (including a lot of the ones living in downtown) say they want a nicer Pershing Square, they'll also avoid it the second they notice it reeks of urine and is full of people dressed in grimy clothing who talk to themselves or who like dealing in drugs and cheap wine---meaning the way its been for over 45 years.

So, unless the politics and mindset changes, the big question should be "why bother?"

Benjamin Pezzillo on June 13, 2008, at 10:01PM – #28

What amazes me is how people have been moaning for something to be done with this corner of Pershing Square forever and now that something is being done, the same people seem to be moaning because they haven't been consulted!?

To be polite, that's sending mixed signals.

This is not a waste of public funds. Quite the opposite -- it's about time some money is spent to improve existing spaces (although, a dog run would have been nice) to the changing community.

For scale, $190k is less than two week's worth of interest on the $120 million in Quimby fees believed to have been collected since 2002.

Given how quickly ground has broken on the Park Fifth project, speculating these changes will all be torn up in a few years is beyond optimistic. Besides, last time I looked this type of equipment can be picked up and moved rather than chucked so the only work lost is site prep and installation.

Given the benefit that will be enjoyed even if Park Fifth happens and Pershing Square gets a complete redo next decade, why oppose this improvement?

shannon on June 13, 2008, at 11:30PM – #29

by my crude count there have been at least 8, if not more, design changes to that parcel of land since 1866. i think it's cursed.

in the 50's the underground parking garage was built and the deep, lush plantings were removed. how do you like the ?

Don Garza on June 13, 2008, at 11:32PM – #30

For those of you upset at the transients , most of you will be long gone after the improvments are made as your rents continue to go up.

I get so sick of everyone so concerned about their pets that they see human beings as a nuisance. I dont' understand how anyone can see a human being as not worthwhile.

Pershing square is a crap hole because there are not any shade trees in the grassy areas of it. There is nothing but concrete.

I think that we should have a say so.

I like the idea of fitness equipment. ANd the idea of like venice beach. But my biggest concern is going out there and working out and winding up lying down in dog urine and feces.

So my sugestion is that they not allow the doggies around the work out equipment and give them a different place . IF they put this equipment there and I smell doggie urine around it I will begin the process of making sure that the County Health Department is aware of the problem.

I watch these dogs pea everywhere downtown.

John Crandell on June 13, 2008, at 11:50PM – #31

Dog runs STINK!

Dogs can piss and shit and that's oh so yuppie fine.

If humans do, it's low-down time skid row and dangerous.

Dogs fit into OUR lifestyle, rats and cockroaches into THEIRS.

Down and out humans are to be shunted aside and avoided.

An appropriately scaled element that would/could become a hugely sentimental experience, a gesture (artistic?) on the part of the park's designers and overseers, is the most critical part in ameliorating the schism between social strata in Downtown. A quasi carnival element may perhaps draw people repeatedly from near and far and make the park a vital crossroads place, between high and low, east and west, north and south. It is a simple question of balance.

Not just any carousel is called for. One conceived by a couple of artists - perhaps Red Grooms and Jonathan Borofsky - could be utter magic. The entire environment must lend magic - the paving, plantings and trees. How might the place be lit in the evening? Put up a large digital monitor and have people bring pillows and chairs and watch a movie each night of the summer.

If a successfull place is to be achieved, it must attract residents from downtown and without - from all strata, repeatedly. It must attract office workers repeatedly, visitors and conventioneers. It must be so good that word will spread and over the years it will be and remain a favorite place, especially for kids as they grow up in L.A.

Part carny, part magic and part Wings of Desire, amidst floral splendor.

Urban Bruin on June 14, 2008, at 12:13AM – #32

We all agree that the problem with the park is it’s current design; as it is, the park does not provide any benefit to the public. It fails in contributing an open space, it does not offer a large expanse of grass, it has very little bench/table space and the water feature looks like an overrun toilet.

Don: By no means are pets more important than humans; but as a practical matter I don’t believe the redesign of Pershing Square or the selection of amenities are a major concern to the transient/homeless population that inhabit the park. That said, having used the park as the meet up point of the Downtown L.A. Dog Walk for over 9 months I know that the loft/apartment dwellers would benefit from an improved park.

Lastly, for those who don’t know, an off-leash dog run is a fenced area set aside for dog activities such as running, playing and yes…pooping. It would be located away from other human activities such as children’s park/ exercise equipment/ public benches or tables. A well maintained dog run should be clean and inviting to the public. For those who hate dog poop, a good dog park will keep the poop within the fences and off your streets.

Brian on June 14, 2008, at 09:17AM – #33

Just to play the devils advocate in this lively discussion ... people are worried about the smell of dog urine but are okay with the smell of human urine along every block here in downtown Los Angeles?

I don't think anyone wants to shun the homeless population, or those of us with pets believe fluffy is more important than a fellow human being. At the same time, if every move decision is predicated upon the impact it will have on the homeless there will be no progress here in downtown Los Angeles, none.

Utah Phillips Jr. on June 14, 2008, at 10:25AM – #34

How about having a dog run in the atrium at Wells Fargo Center..? Convert one of those cut granite planters and Fluffy can listen to the babbling brook while he poops.

The management will leave complementary stick-matches in designer boxes set on designer side tables for use by pet owners. For those with Doberman Pinchers, there might even be incense!

Robert Grahams sculptures will soon have a more robust patina and CPK can add Dog Turd Pie (with goat cheese) to the menu.

Robert Maguire would HOWL.

Don Garza on June 14, 2008, at 01:16PM – #35

Who says we don't complain about the smell of urine and feces of human beings.

Just an FYI to those who have just arrived downtown. It was the homeless and the skid row community that worked on getting the automated public toilets. No one from yuppie ville helped in this endeavor. I was the person who pushed and pushed for these things from the very beginning after Jan Perry began to get opposition. Not to mention this place stunk worse than it does now. I helped move the Midnight Mission knowing they would also provide access to their toilet facilities.

The fact remains that we all want to have nice places to enjoy ourselves outdoors, but let's face it. IS it time we began posting on line all of the dog owners and their new found pets peaing everywhere downtown. Then we can send these photos to the save the environment because all of that Urine and feces goes into the storm drains and down to long beach.

The generalizations about how we feel is preposterous coming from people who supposedly have a degree from prestigious universities. How about instead of saying:

"people are worried about the smell of Dog Urine and Feces...". "YOU"

You sound like one of those homeless advocates when they accuse everyone of being against the homeless. By stating that we are against the doggies.

I have another question. I need you to tell me which one of those people enjoying the park are homeless. Can you distinguish the homeless from those who are not?

For those who live with stereotypes who would probably picture a person with a shopping cart , even then I know people who live in these sro's who own shopping carts. You can even go to the hood and there are people who own homes who wander around with shopping carts.

The point is that it bothers me when human beings are made second nature to pets. To me it just sounds like self-hatred as a species to make statements that transients are a nuisance and a bother.

Come up with some solutions about this problem instead of doing what they did during the City Business District Redevelopment project area when the CRA supported the design of these amenities as a disincentive for the homeless, at that time, the "skid row type people", from using them.

DO you really think these designs were made in a vacuum and out of some sort of inefficiency? If you do, I have ton's of real estate downtown to sell you .

Brady Westwater on June 14, 2008, at 01:49PM – #36

There seems to be some confusion on two points. First, the whole purpose of having a very small part of the park being a dog park is to improve the quality of life for the people using the park. Right down the dogs relieve themselves everywhere in the park which is why the grass is filled with brown spots; the only way to have a cleaner and healthier park for humans is to provide a dedicated place for the dogs to do their thing.

Second, it is not that 'some people' who were not consulted on this expenditure of $190,000 in public funds. No one was consulted. Not the city managers of the park, not the park's advisory board which is supposed to be informed of any changes, and certainly not the public. And even when it was passed by the Rec and Parks Board, it was as a consent item with zero public hearings before it was passed. It appears that every attempt was made to keep anyone from knowing about this project.

And as for the public restrooms, DLANC's Transportation and Public Works Committee has been advocating them (and Don has been a member of the committee since Mike Gagan and I started it) since the first year DLANC was formed - and the entire board has consistently - and 100% - supposed their installation.

haven on June 14, 2008, at 02:16PM – #37

Im glad that the design incorporates green lawn and plantings. The uninviting concrete and dirt park that is Pershing desperately needs greenery. As for inspiration, one need look no further than the small yet beautiful Maguire Gardens Park beside the library and Cafe Pinot for an outstanding example of what a small park can be. Here is a little pocket of a park with lush landscaping that is really beautiful, yet so simple. It has much shade provided by its many grand Magnolia and other trees. It has large patches of very healthy green grass, stone-studded walkways, lighting along the walkways, wood and iron benches, and a nice water feature. The plantings are very healthy here, well maintained, and the park is clean and very safe as Maguire security patrol it. You see people with shopping carts here sometimes, but i've never witnesssed drug use or dealing as i have in Pershing.

As for the timeline of the re-do, honestly im a bit confused. I think we downtown residents are eager for beautiful open green spaces and parks, and frustrated by the blatent Quimby fiasco, so we want solutions now. It does not seem like that much money really, and it seems that what is intended as temporary, often tends to linger. Then again, cant the parks department spend say ten million to purchase a nearby parking lot, and do it right, and permanent?

Benjamin Pezzillo on June 14, 2008, at 02:32PM – #38

I think your facts malign your argument Brady.

If it was a consent item on a the Rec and Parks Commission agenda: 1) Someone at Rec and Parks had to know about and 2) There was opportunity for public comment.

What amazes me is that in the middle of the City's 'self-declared fiscal emergency' you are willing to openly thwart an improvement that appears to have already jumped some key hurdles.

Urban Bruin on June 14, 2008, at 03:37PM – #39

Sometimes a park is just a park. Homelessness, crime and other problems of the world isn't going to get fixed by Pershing Square. So focusing on the real issue; what do we do with the only large open PUBLIC space in downtown?

If they are using Quimby funds for this project than those people who contributed to those funds (new condo owners & apartment tenants) should have the largest voice. We want a safe and clean park with amenities that we would enjoy. The park can't make everyone happy but it should make the most amount of people satisfied. I'll bet if we had an experiment as what new feature would have the most use, a dog run/park would beat any other addition hands down.

Brady: thanks for getting the point; I am not asking that all of Pershing Square be dedicated as a dog park. All we want is a small corner, fenced, clean and safe.

Don Garza on June 14, 2008, at 03:53PM – #40

I am sorry to say that Brady Westwater is wrong.

Not until I had many meetings with Jan Perry's office and constant contact with Jeff Catalano and Kathy Godfrey on the issue of the public toilets , did DLANC even attempt to get in on the action.

I was there from the very beginning. Since Jan Perry was elected working on this issue ling before DLANC was even certified. DLANC did not come into the fray over the toilets until 3 years after I was working with NICK Pacheco and the City Council on the ISSUE.

It is documented.

I was on that committee but Jan Perry's office had to contact me directly and ask for the neighborhoods input , since the transportation and Public Works committee never liked to do outreach to our community.

Brady did not work on this issue.

The homeless and the residents in skid row began this issue and Brady and the rest of those others rode our coattails and tried to take credit for our work.

We have even had to work on the Central City East DASH bus without the support of Brady and DLANC.

Stop taking credit for work you didn't do.

Utah Phillips Jr. on June 14, 2008, at 04:10PM – #41

But of course Fluffy and Fido will do their thing right where mamma/dadda tell them to, not on the lawn where people would otherwise sit to hear music or have a picnic and enjoy a nice lawn without brown spots.

Whether or not there is a dog run, the presence of dog turds is an acute menace. If there is a gang fight, it will quickly become a turd fight. The whole place will then have to be closed down until the HazMat unit sanitizes all of the grass and paving.

Call Jan Perry's office and tell them No Dog Turds in Pershing Square!

Chattycathy on June 14, 2008, at 06:50PM – #42

I vote for dog turds over drug dealing.

Don Garza on June 14, 2008, at 08:58PM – #43

Yes , yes yes, The only come back there is. Many of us witnessed the drug dealing in the bathroom behind a certain cafe I refuse to patronize now. This is one of the reasons I was made to be intimidated by certain patrons and an employee, because they knew my stance on drugs.

There are more people smoking crack and weed residing in the new lofts than there are people on the street smoking that stuff. Even selling.

So this response of better dog turds than drug dealing doesn't intimidate me one bit. I have seen many gilville and other loft residents come to wall and 5th street to score weed and other drugs. Should I put them on camera? I am going to walk around downtown and any time I see a dog owner deliberately allow his or her dog to relieve themselves wherever they want I will photograph this. But maybe I should be photographing the loft dwellers who come to score dope in skid row too?

I make no apologies for what I write.

Again, it has been the skid row residents who supported and have seen the Safer Cities initiative do it's thing. Yet , once again, others, and I can assume Brady Westwater will continue to take credit for the work of the people in skid row.

The Truth is coming out.

But let us all be aware the arguments about drug dealing etc are now a waste of time since it is the many new loft renters that are buying the drugs now.

That argument about the turds over drugs won't stand anymore.

out of my window on June 15, 2008, at 01:40AM – #44

i use the park every day. pershing square is like any other concrete city park except for one thing. the people who run the park are not in sync with each other or the community. the advisory board is a set up. it's run by a lady who doesn't allow any one from the community to have a say about any real downtown issues. the members are all hand picked by the parks department. the members don't live downtown, roll their eyes at the meetings and can't wait to head back to the valley at 5pm. the meetings are usually reports about when activities start and what new plant has been potted. i'm sure the advisory board knew nothing about the park construction because that is not the type of infornmation that they would be given. you are worried about dog poop? i walk through the park almost every morning and the clean up crew which is hard to distinguish from the homeless people, (can't the city afford uniforms for these people? most of the crew is made up of young men wearing ipods oblivious to the world around them. maybe the bid can loan pershing staff some shirts so the staff can be identified)the clean up crew spends most of their morning time cleaning human waste from every nook and cranny in the park. why do people poop in the park? have you seen the security? the guards are unfriendly, unprofessional and ineffective. who is in charge of these people? have you ever worked in the law inforcement field? june every year the park holds a summer music series for the community. this year 3 weeks before the summer concerts begin the park staff digs up the main entrance on 5th and hill. the park has no activity all spring but 3 weeks before the summer they dig up the entrance. last week the park had an art show around the fountain. nice idea but the park closed down the fountain for repair. yellow tape was up once again creating the pershing crime scene effect. is any body commmunicating over there? does one hand know what the other one is doing? now the park is putting in exercise equipment. that will be great news for all the ex cons who use the park. it will be just like the old prison yard. let do chin ups while ambrosia sings love songs. how can the park people know what the downtown residents want or need if they don't even have a staff that know whats going on at different ends of the park.

Urban Bruin on June 15, 2008, at 02:17AM – #45

No dog turd? Do you hate all animals; did a dog bite you when you were young? Hope you don't hate people as much as you do animals...you do know your in an urban center with people and dogs. Only turd I've seen is the crap you've been posting!

Don Garza on June 15, 2008, at 03:04AM – #46

_ If they are using Quimby funds for this project than those people who contributed to those funds (new condo owners & apartment tenants) should have the largest voice. We want a safe and clean park with amenities that we would enjoy._

The elitists have spoken.

Now we get the real Urban Bruin. So who are these people who should be controlling open space? This is America. Open space is for everyone.

While the quimby fees might pay for the park reconstruction and improvements, everyone in the world that comes to Los Angeles pays sales tax. And since sales tax is one of the largest portion to stay local and go into the city's general fund, without making it's trek to Sacramento before coming back to the city. This is always a losing argument. You see, who pays for the park maintenance , who pays for the rangers and the cleaning crews and etc.?

With all of that alphabet behind your name, you need to beef up on the way taxes are collected in this state. This is why those who want to preclude everyone else form their own private parks , need to bone up on the tax system in this state. I suggest that if you want to make this your own personal park that you pony up the money to make it so.

I agree , a Dog Run would be great , fenced off from the rest of the citizenry, and those who use it, should pay a fee for their use of it. Not fair? Everyone who pays taxes to this city is paying those people to maintain the dog run. Sounds fair and logical to me . Oh, and by the way , if you do that then you can have your dog urinated and poop stained area all to yourselves.

RC on June 15, 2008, at 07:24AM – #47

Haven is right about the best park Downtown which is the Maguire Gardens. I take my dogs there (I am very responsible). They water the lawn more frequently which keeps it green as well as keeps the homeless from sleeping on it. The brown spots in Pershing Square can be eliminated by more shade (less sun on urine), frequent watering (reclaimed water of course) and the use of bermuda grass rather fescue. I sat at Arda's Cafe one day and wondered why the view from their patio is of mediocre landcaping and no flowers. We also need more pocket parks to alleviate all the dogs in one place.

Urban Bruin on June 15, 2008, at 10:53AM – #48

You seem to think you know a whole lot about everything downtown, taxes, social disorder and urban planning so since I've put out my suggestion why not do the same. I haven't seen your suggestion on what improvements Pershing Square needs, how it would help the majority of people. Easy to yell down ideas, harder to come up with constructive suggestions!

But I like your idea of a dog park fee (though a dog run/park would be open to the entire public for use). Let's take that idea to its logical conclusion, Pershing Park stage: not everyone can use it so should performers have to pay a fee? Kids play area, should we charge hourly or per child? People taking naps on the grass, hmm L.A. City charges 25 cents for 7 minutes for parking meters should we do the same? Lastly, how about them benches? Those shady oasis of downtown L.A., what do we charge those who camp out all day and night; they should pay a fee: maybe $1 an hour? $20 bucks a day? I don't know but I'm sure a public finance wizard such as yourself can tell us!

Only "alphabets/numbers" behind my name that matters to this discussion is that my address ends with 90017

Don Garza on June 15, 2008, at 12:24PM – #49

yes, I do know a lot about the tax system in this state.

I have worked on many solutions to these problems.

I have worked on limiting the amount of social services in downtown to regionalize the issue by providing the services outside of downtown.

I was at the Homeless Committee of the City of Los Angeles working on Moving Downtown Woman's Center to expand housing for the women who are under served in skid row.And to move and expand the Midnight Mission To expand them to get more people off of the street.

I fought the settlement that was a result of the Jones Case that would have created downtown's skid row as the place where people who found themselves homeless all over the city to be allowed to sleep on the streets of skid row from 9 pm to 6am thus making it a city wide issue and not just a skid row and downtown issue. It was people like me from skid row that made the difference, because we knew th e results of that action. As a result more housing is being built.

I also worked on getting the Central City East DASH bus so that those who find themselves downtown can ride that bus for a quarter and get to the places to help them not get stuck in Skid row and becoming the longterm homeless everyone complains about and bother those who don't want them in Pershing square.

I am working on a white paper now with the City and the Neighborhood Council so that we improve the services in skid row, not add social service providers, but fix the issues that these providers were not providing.

We also improve the parks in skid row. Instead of not sharing the quimby fees we make sure that the skid row parks are improved.

We also approach the LAPD to attack the issues of drug dealing in the park by putting up cameras like they have in MacArthur Park and all over skid row. Going to cpab meetings of the LAPD would help your cause, instead of depending on Brady Westwater to do the work for you.

Working with the DCBID and report any drug dealing you may see and then they can monitor those that are doing that and they can get the information to the LAPD.

The other thing is to get these new Loft Residents to stop buying drugs at Pershing square.

Thanks to the ACLU the police can't really get to these drug dealers dressed as homeless people because of a lawsuit. As a result of that lawsuit drug dealers use the homeless as their dealers now. SO the LAPD are very careful when dealing with them. The drugs are not on these people when they sell.

You would think that the security guards at the PArk would stop these things from happening. But remember, these are gangs running these drugs.

Stop the new loft dwellers from buying the drugs and creating a demand.

When the hope street gang was busted, who was buying the drugs in that area of Downtown? It wasn't the homeless.

The only thing that really can be done is to look and watch , report where they store their weed or dope when reporting them. What they are wearing , etc. We have been working on this issue here with our senior lead officers. And of course it can't be reported anonymously.

The tax system is what is stopping many people who want to take public open space to make it all of their own. As long as everyone is paying taxes , even the homeless , try and dissuade them from being able to use these open spaces.

I haven't heard of any solutions from you. What solutions are you proposing? Other than a dog run. Which I am in agreement with, separate from the human areas where we want to lie and sit on the grass.

On another note: buy a parking lot and turn it into whatever you want. Then you can control whatever you want and preclude whomever you want. It is private property.

But when using public funds that will never happen.

As far as the fees. Well, I was using the fee for dramatic effect, since you want to use public funds for your own personal oasis and use. You seem to think that the quimby fees is it. That that is all it will take to maintain these parks. There are maintenance costs involved which everyone pays for. The DCBID might have to step in and provide these services of cleaning up after the doggies.

I have already stated I want more trees . I am not yelling down the dog run. But these pet owners need to realize that just because their doggies are at the park does not give them the right to allow them to Urinate and defecate all over the place, then they try to pass laws against people down on their luck for urinating and defecating in public.

As the leader of the dog get together at Pershing Square it behooves you to come up with some solutions.

Maybe helping with getting that white paper together , so we can improve the services in skid row. Not add social service providers , but on-site supportive services in these low income hotels in skid row, so that the people aren't constantly moving in and then have to over back out on the street because they couldn't maintain their housing. All this does, over time , is increase the amount of people who live on the streets of downtown.

But also talking on here about what the problems are in the park as far as the drug dealing , etc. is also a good thing.

Yes, I have been downtown a log time and have worked on many of these issues and will continue to do so.

Hold the policy makers accountable. Learn about the tax system, learn about the solutions that did work and didn't work on the issues of homelessness.

Coming right out and attacking the homeless has been tried before , Downtowners have moved away from that tactic, because all it does is cause lawsuits, and then there are unintended consequences such as the drug dealers able to hide behind wheelchairs and real homeless people or dress themselves to look homeless so that the LAPD has a hard time going after the problem as a result of the Jones CASE.

We have changed the way LAPD does business , they aren't going for cosmetic results anymore and are now going after the bigger fish. SO if you want them to just remove homeless people from Pershing square , just because you want them to, well.

SO what are your solutions?

Urban Bruin on June 15, 2008, at 03:34PM – #50

Glad to hear that you're not against a dog run/park in Pershing Square. Guess we're in agreement on that issue.

It's clear you seem to have accomplished many successes in helping to improve the community, I'll look forward to intense dialogue with you knowing that it'll take all of us to help find solutions in making downtown a more livable place.

Best of luck! Its been real and its been fun...

Ciao

Juanito on June 15, 2008, at 05:47PM – #51

Instead of turds, let's talk about magic in Pershing Square. Personally, I doubt that Park Fifth will happen. By the time the development scene turns around and there is a market again for so much product, the developer will have retired and gone home to Pasadena. And when that time comes, he will need a design so exceptional that celebrities from west of LaBrea will flock Downtown to buy in.

My very best friend is a landscape architect and his name is John. He has a magical design all prepared for the square. It is available on two PDF files and he will e-mail them to anyone who might be interested.

Just ckeck out and send him a message. The two files require 1.1 megs of space.

I feel that his design is a good point from which to jump forward on the discussion of what is needed at this particular place in Downtown.

Au Revoir Utah!

Haven on June 15, 2008, at 06:46PM – #52

Don Garza, your passion for downtown and for improving the quality of life for skid row, and all downtown residents has not gone unnoticed. Thanks to you for your efforts.

As for using quimby funds to purchase private property such as a parking lot - it is a real and probable, i hope, outcome.

According to Downtown News: "Since 2002, Recreation and Parks has collected more than $120 million in Quimby fees citywide, including $15.9 million in the Ninth Council District (which includes much of Downtown Los Angeles)...Indeed, the department said that $77.5 million in Quimby money remains unallocated."

At the end of 2007 "two Downtown properties Recreation and Parks has earmarked $7 million in Quimby funds to purchase may no longer be available."

Mia Lehrer "a landscape architect who has worked on city park projects, including a study of how to use Quimby funds" states ""One of the things we did uncover was how many under-utilized alleys and parking lots there are Downtown that could be pocket parks." Brilliant i say!

If the parks department remains true to its intent to spend the money within a 2 mile radius of where it was collected from, then it should really be spent close to new residential developments. These people actually paid this fee in purchasing their place(through the developers), and the law dictates that it be spent close to their residences. As such, the downtown funds should be spent near the residential development areas of the historic core, or south park, or in-between.

Parking lots offer one of the only real viable solutions to this problem. And there are many many many parking lots downtown that could be converted into pocket parks. Furthermore, the recent downturn in the real estate market might actually offer a scarce opportunity to actually purchase a lot at a reduced price. This combined with the overflowing coffers of the Quimby funds seems to scream - act now! Purchase two parking lots to make two small, nice, pocket parks! One could be exclusively for a "dog run" so all the downtown dogs can run wild and pee and poo till their hearts content - and the other could be a beautiful little peaceful green respite like Maguire Gardens, or Hope Park. These small, well maintained parks are the kind that work downtown, and are the kind the quimby funds should be used for.

Dennis Smith on June 15, 2008, at 07:48PM – #53

Despite its reputation as a veritable vortex of vagrants, dog turds and loft dwelling dope fiends desperately seeking their next fix, that hell hole of the western world better known as Pershing Square once again managed to play host to a few hundred aficionados of music and dance as the Salsa Sundays series was inaugurated today with a concert by Charangoa.

These concerts succeed almost in spite of a lack of promotion and a starting time at 3:30 p.m. when the summer sun can be fairly brutal on energetic dancers. However, the quality of the music draws people in and as the shadows advance when the sun drops behind the Biltmore, the crowd of folks continues to grow and while some people leave at intermission others arrive later to take their place. It is the most democratic of dance floors, with no dress code, no door man and where all ages are always welcome. I only wish there was a little more active street level promotion along the Broadway shopping corridor. Posters with three simple words, BAILE, SALSA and GRATIS and the date and time of the perfomance would be enough to bring in larger crowds as might scheduling more salsa concerts on Friday nights starting at 5:00 p.m. alternating with the movies series scheduled for some Friday nights this summer.

To see the smiles on the faces of tourists as they come upon the pleasant scene of people dancing in the park is to know that this kind of event is the best and most cost effective way to put a charming visage on what is perceived as a square block benighted by bad design until the necessary revenue is allocated to finance the next iteration in the continuing metamorphosis of Pershing Square.

Don Garza on June 15, 2008, at 11:31PM – #54

As a result of the vigorous debate on this post about a dog run. It seems to me that it will be while until Park 5th renovates Pershing square. As a result, I have contacted Jan Perry and have begun the process of putting together an event that will bring dog owners all over downtown to make sure they get their names on a list requesting a dog run set aside at Pershing square.

thanks for the vigorous debate and I will get this issue out in the forefront.

Considering all of you who voted for me in the election , although I didn't win I now know you have confidence in me to continue to work to get these things done. Sorry I didn't campaign or I would have some extra juice in bringing forth this issue. Knowing the gate keepers who would have gotten thousands to vote for me . I know I have many friends that will continue to help me in these types of endeavors.

Urban Bruin if you want to get involved contact me by e-mail

and we can work on getting the venue and setting a date so that pet owners can begin the process of making sure we get our dog run downtown. We can't wait. there are too many doggies running around and the amount is just going to increase.

Being the Los Angeles Town Crier I have access to various venues downtown. SO that we can have meetings. I have others involved in this.

Don Garza

Norbie 7 on June 16, 2008, at 04:25AM – #55

Note to Sue Laris, we need an editorial. This concept of turning Pershing into Dog Turd Square needs to be examined, given greater consideration than simply remaining an issue of responsiveness on the part of the local councilperson. Pershing Square belongs to the entire city of Los Angeles. Not too many years ago the local councilman acceded to the wishes of local dog owners and a dog run was set up below Silver Lake Reservoir. That location has become notoriously fouled and the county health department and water quality control officials ought to have shut it down.

Canines are already having an impact upon Pershing Square and it is not positive. And it is not only the square that is being impacted. Dog owners have become vociferous and are organizing and there will be environmental and economic blow back in accommodation to their wishes. Dog owners by regulation should be required to be resposible for their pet's taking a dump in public and that should be strictly enforced and more specificially, dogs should be outlawed from Pershing Square, Grand Hope Park or any other public greenspace in Downtown. Verboten!

Finally, any owner with a dog on a leash within the confines of Downtown and other specified areas of the city should be required to have their pet(s) wear diapers and be cited and fined for a minimum of one hundred dollars for violation. That goes for cats as well.

Don Garza on June 16, 2008, at 05:47AM – #56

Actually these are just preliminary dialogs to find out what we can do and hear all sides of the issue.

Find out what options are out there. How to implement them and find solutions to this problem. But to also make sure that the pet owners get their say on the issue.

There are always solutions to these questions we just need to get together and find out what.

Since this post was made at 5:40 A.m. and I am under the assumption that this person is anonymous that this is just a way to intimidate us from getting this endeavor together. Why not scare the powers that be?

I am not afraid. I will move forward with the meeting.

Let's get this done and get the research done.

Although Norbie 7 is a bit angry that person has raised something to look at.

I know that in District 14 there was a dog park that was dmade for pet owners. Let's see what we can find out about implementing or not implementing.

Anyway, everything is being set into motion. SO We will move forward with the town hall style meeting.

Brian on June 16, 2008, at 07:39AM – #57

1. Why are developers not held accountable and required to develop "X" amount of green space or parks when developing a property? Instead, money is collected and sits around until everyone and their uncle has a chance to argue about where to spend the money. Such a requirement would create the areas we are talking about simultaneously with the new developments.

2. I can't see some people's vehement opinions on dogs and cats in downtown. This is where people are moving to! Should children under 10 be outlawed as well?

I'm afraid that many of the opinions expressed here are those shared by others living downtown, and if that is the case I am afraid this grand transformation of downtown will never occur.

Purple Haze on June 16, 2008, at 11:40AM – #58

DIAPERS? There's a couple of local politicians that I think could use some as well...

Jonathan on June 16, 2008, at 04:01PM – #59

Pershing Square is a joke. I go there with my girlfriend and we spend ten minutes trying to find a spot thats at least 50 ft from the smell of urine. thats hard to do in Pershing, sometimes we cant find one and have to go back to Arda's to drink our coffee... youre going to put exercise equipment there? are u kidding? whos going to exercise there? if anyones going to, i doubt they are the type of person paying the taxes to pay for this park in the first place. Put a bunch of trees and grass, and put some damn cops there so it doesnt become a bum/gangster hangout.

Chattycathy on June 16, 2008, at 04:57PM – #60

Can I change my vote? I now want to vote for dog turds and salsa dancing.

Eileen on June 16, 2008, at 06:38PM – #61

SO if you want them to just remove homeless people from Pershing square , just because you want them to, well.

SO what are your solutions?

I think you answered your question. There are none.

Or maybe the question should be do you know of any city in America that has effectively eliminated the problem of homelessness, with its attendant odors?

The soft-touch approach has been tried for decades in San Francisco.

No success.

The less soft-touch approach has been tried for at least 20 years in Santa Monica.

No success.

The kisses-and-hugs or ignore-it approach has been tried in downtown Los Angeles since at least the 1970s, or earlier.

No success.

The only thing that may save Pershing Square is to put it in a giant box and cart it off elsewhere, far, far away from downtown Los Angeles.

Don Garza on June 16, 2008, at 06:47PM – #62

It's a solution, eileen , although a bit dramatic. It is interesting that everyone wants perfect open space. What needs to be done in reality is create open space on tops of these buildings so that the tenants can use those spaces.

I believe that the only way to control open space is to buy your own and then you can determine who gets to come. It is politically incorrect and I hate to bring it up.

I lived on a ranch that was over 275 acres , we controlled who cam on the property. I mean this is America. PRivate property exists.

I beleive this is where we may get into some lawsuits as regards quimby funds.

LA LIVE has open space, but they control it because they own it.

SO if all of you moving dwontown gathered maybe 50 million dollars you could buy a parking lot and build your own park and we wouldn't bother you.

Who knows. But downtown , anywhere, smells like urine. The worst place is in the jewlery district around those potted trees between 6th street and 7th Street on HIll.

Norbie 7 on June 16, 2008, at 10:05PM – #63

What about the top level of the city parking garage at 6th and Main? Does that parking structure ever fill up? Put in a layer of sand on top of charcoal (with plastic liner) and a bunch of plastic trees and Bushes. Perfect solution: the dogs of downtown can pee all over the Bushes. Fab.

Maybe the city could put up a concession stand and sell munchies, both for the pets and their owners. And then the owners could pee on the Bushes as well. poetic justice.

Joel C on June 17, 2008, at 08:39AM – #64

Ricardo Legoretta took a bad Pershing Square and made it worse. His concrete and stucco buildings, exemplified by the giant spewing purple phallus, are hideous.

He should go back to designing Walmart Supercenters (his other claim to fame). Don't let him near Pershing Square again.

Joel C on June 17, 2008, at 08:43AM – #65

IMO, exercise equipment makes no sense.

Does anybody remember the days when city parks had trees and grass, and you went there to relax on your lunch break, or take a walk along a quiet path in the middle of the city?

JM on June 17, 2008, at 10:34AM – #66

That's what I'd like to see: some grass and trees.

Ginny on June 17, 2008, at 11:08AM – #67

I'm glad to see the postings calming down.

I didn't know there was a city lot at 6th/Main. As I understand that's going to be a building one day.

Pershing Square will need to be redone, and in the meantime, we need something that can hold us over. And...it needs to be balanced with the needs of all our neighbors. Just to point out and appreciate - our neighbors include dogs, adults and kids. We can't expect Pershing Square to be the cure-all for our recreational needs.

I agree with a post above that we need more accessible pocket parks. While it's not a perfect example, I think is on the right track...the Santee Court pocket park. It's all concrete with some trees. It's quiet, there's water features, no cars, bathroom close by, and ice cream available for purchase from TWO places.

hmmmm. I miss Santee Court. Too bad they didn't have a washer/dryer in the unit.

Norbie 7 on June 17, 2008, at 01:36PM – #68

The parking structure on west side of Main, behind the L.A. Theater Center, betwixt 5th & 6th.

Juanito on June 17, 2008, at 01:53PM – #69

Who really ran the show on the redesign of Pershing Square in the very early 1990s? Who decided to pre-empt the normal design review process and eliminate any public presentations or input. Who decided to bring in Legoretta on the project? Was it the CRA (ask Kaliski)? Was it Parks and Rec? Did the local councilman receive a substantial campaign contribution? Or was it the big boss at Pershing Square BID?

This subject would make a very interesting investigative article in a design journal, to add to the substantial amount of articles already published regards the sorry results stemming from the decision(s) of whoever ran the show.

The precipitous closure of the park for renovation prior to the '84 Olympics caused a loud ruckus and whoever it was who ran the show didn't want a repeat. He put his foot down and now we live with the stinking results.

celia on June 17, 2008, at 02:00PM – #70

that isn't a city parking structure, that's a five-star parking garage. they also own the one on spring between 3rd & 4th.

that garage fills up. residents from at least six nearby residential properties park there. on days/nights when they lease the lot out to production companies for filming, it gets really really full.

Norbie 7 on June 17, 2008, at 02:44PM – #71

Darn. But it was constructed by the city.

Downtown will never rise to our fondest dreams. Why? Because the city of L.A. will never pursue a parking program in Downtown anywhere comparable to Beverly Hills' Golden Triangle. Never. Parking lot operators have a big say at City Haul (sic).

out of my wondow on June 17, 2008, at 07:27PM – #72

welcome to almostville. it's almost a park, almost a music venue, almost a land mark. who is working with parks from the neighborhood? almost the Park Advisory if they are allowed to advise, almost the neighborhood council if they can get ideas across, almost the community if they can feel welcome, almost the BID if they arent charged giant fees, almost the homeless if they dont get haseled by the guards. just incase you think i'm almost always negative this summer's activities seem to be better than most years. It's almost like a real downtown city park.

John Crandell on June 18, 2008, at 08:29PM – #73

I have doubts about establishing/formalizing any activity in the square which would set up a contestable 'turf' situation, be it hoops or barbells or any other street-type activity. Downtown L.A. sure is not Venice Beach and Pershing Square is not Gladys Park.

Officials need to set up an element(s) that will attract tourists, conventioneers, residents from near and far and office workers on a lunch break or after work on an evanescent evening of June.

If the Disney Company can do so much for Times Square, it ought to be able to do a whole lot more, given the amount of space available at Pershing Square. We need charm and whimsical expression - like Angel's Flight, like the carousel at S.M. Pier. But on second thought, that would require someone in city government thinking outside of the box.

Come on - surprise us! Anyone at City Hall ready to step up to the plate?

Norbie 7 on June 19, 2008, at 12:35PM – #74

News Item: gangsters rough up Mickey Mouse. Donald Duck treated for rape. More at eleven!

Purple Haze on June 19, 2008, at 01:56PM – #75

Whoa! Back to Retchy's City of Night and at the same locale. Maybe we need something out of Fante's Dreams from Bunker Hill instead.

Yes, it was a languid evening in July. Kids were wading in the pool by the waterfall. Bums were reading the poetry on the wall and suddenly, trashcans began flying through the air...

There was a profusion of crowbars. There was screaming in Pershing Square.

Desert Bruin on June 19, 2008, at 04:07PM – #76

We're at 75 and counting, people. Let's go for 100! Come on, get into it!

Dunne's Ghost on June 19, 2008, at 05:53PM – #77

If Park Fifth falls through, Disney would have a lot more room. There's also the lot above the Redline portal. Universal tried to get the U.C. Redline station built right on their property, on top of the hill. What a bonus that would have been. I like the branding idea. Sounds much more feasible, development-wise and would keep the square crowded year round.

Don Garza on June 19, 2008, at 09:50PM – #78

OK guys ,

Pet summit coming soon sponsored by CD 9 and the Town Crier and hopefully we can get Ken Chiu involved.

It is going to be fun.

More info as we get it together.

out of my window on June 20, 2008, at 12:06AM – #79

... but i have to look at this every day and it makes me sad. i tried to get involved but there was nothing to get involved with. today great band no people. you can't have lunch next to a persong asleep with a swollen belly sticking out of his unzipped pants. you cant have anything at Pershing until the dopers and homeless don't own it. Pershing needs direction. a new direction. a new plan.

Urban Trojan on June 20, 2008, at 12:53AM – #80

Whatever effort, short or long term, Councilwoman Perry, the redevelopment agency, Parks and Rec and the square's BID ought to scrutinize exactly what situation the Houk Development firm is in with their project. How many depositors have pulled out? Soaring costs for energy and materials plus labor doesn't present a good picture.

Should a substantial chunk of Quimby funds be used for a major renovation rather than purchase of new land for new park space?

The members of the BID are already being assessed for what turned out to be a disaster. They shouldn't be expected to pay more and the CRA prolly could not afford anywhere near what it would cost to do it right. A major private underwriter could work out, if the right programming were to be achieved.

Don Garza on June 20, 2008, at 01:05AM – #81

Well, We expect you at the event with questions and solutions.

You are going to be surprised at some of the private solutions out there that are coming along. Where there is a demand there is an entrepreneur ready to meet that demand.

Juanito on June 20, 2008, at 01:49AM – #82

They'd best include one of those mechanical bucking broncos in the deal. Gotta keep Brady on board.

Urban Trojan on June 20, 2008, at 07:54AM – #83

Urban Trojan = Russell Brown?

Urban Trojan on June 20, 2008, at 08:46AM – #85

Hmm, well, "Trojan" suggests a USC graduate and clearly this person knows plenty of details on the issue -- wonder who that could be?

out my window on June 20, 2008, at 09:05AM – #86

who cares who's writing are the right people reading. i don't think the park people give a hoot about what we want. I was at a meeting in the park at the begining of te summer and lots of folks showed up and had dinner on the grass. lots of ideas and suggestions but all we heard was "no".

Urban Bruin on June 20, 2008, at 09:47AM – #87

"Who cares?" I agree working with the City you can feel that way. I say use your most important asset "your residence" either as a renter or owner you live in someones council district. Give them a call, send them an email or write a letter with your address; they'll care if enough people make it an issue. For the most part I think both Councilmembers that cover downtown have been open to working with downtown folks.

My 2 cents!

Urban Bruin = 103 NCAA Championship!

http://uclabruins.cstv.com/trads/no-1-combined-program.html

Urban Bruin on June 20, 2008, at 12:12PM – #89

Thanks for keeping post #87

Urban Trojan on June 20, 2008, at 12:50PM – #90

The Downtown News ought to get into the Pershing Square issue in a big way. Big Way!

Houk/Park Fifth has only a sales/lifestyle promotion working for them and a negative real estate climate working strongly against them. Houk should sell out his rights to Disney and go home. He'd avoid a lot of headaches. Disney has one hell of a brand, the financial wherewithall and imaginative designers, which together could make an extraordinary difference in the future of Downtown L.A.

Note: the previous two comments by 'Urban Trojan' were made by an impostor and no, I am not Russell. Here's a hint: I would never be associated with a university for spoiled children.

Sunshine on June 20, 2008, at 03:01PM – #91

I actually considered registering the domain name ihatepershingsquare.com

Get rid of the purple monster. Tear out the parking garage. Bring in real trees. Anything less is a waste of taxpayer money.

Obamaphile on June 20, 2008, at 04:13PM – #92

Another question is whether Nelson Rising is as interested in Pershing Square as Rob Maguire has been. Although the land underneath is city terrain, I believe that the parking structure may be owned by the Maguire company. Or perhaps it's only the rights to the parking concession. Or perhaps the company has since sold it's interest.

Where to put the Enchanted Ticki Room?

Russell Brown on June 20, 2008, at 10:58PM – #94

And Russell Brown will always be listed as an email address that has my own name in it.

Juanito on June 21, 2008, at 12:22AM – #95

As an interim measure to fill the gap between this summer and the point when a major renovation would/could happen, parks and rec ought to jackhammer and remove all buildings, walls, tower and pink cylinders. Where possible, bring in sand and put up volleyball nets. Bring in boxed Bougainvillea vines, set them on the concrete and let them spread out/cover it over. Put in some book nooks and pizza and hotdog carts, perhaps even a beer garden. Increase visibility into the park along the entire perimeter. No shrubs. Just vines and groundcovers surrounding whatever trees would remain. Keep the existing stage but remove the wall behind it. Put up video cameras to cover the entire area.

Don Garza on June 21, 2008, at 03:17AM – #96

Urban Bruin,

I agree with you that they should. Did they do an editorial in the recent edition of the Downtown News?

So we don't have video cameras in Pershing Square?

Pet Summit coming soon to a South Lawn near you.

Juanito on June 21, 2008, at 08:40AM – #97

Punch a hole into the parking structure. Make an oblong atrium. Replace the escalators with caged elevators. Put in stairs like at the Bradbury Building. Put up an overhead skylight. Convert the remaining parking to the Los Angeles City History Museum. Plant palm trees in the atrium. Say that George Wyman was the architect. Be sure that Sumner Hunt is NOT mentioned or depicted anywhere in the museum. Don't let Ray Bradbury know about this.

John Crandell on June 21, 2008, at 09:00AM – #98

Change the name of the place back to Central Park.

Pershing was that guy who chased Pancho Villa all over northern Mexico and kissed up to Douglas MacArthur.

Anyone who'd play kissy with that raging mongoose doesn't deserve to have a park named after him.

Don Garza on June 21, 2008, at 11:37AM – #99

I have a sneaking suspicion there is a hint in the Juanito post. He mentions the Los Angeles History Museum.

Anyway. We just need more shade trees in the park. And we need a swimming pool too.

Juanito on June 21, 2008, at 11:54AM – #100

Dear Antonio,

pease put in a call to Disney Development. They know how to get rid of Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs and no, I don't want a Matterhorn in Pershing Square.

But first, put on Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue and think on it a bit.

Don Garza on June 21, 2008, at 07:38PM – #101

Well, we finally hit 100.

I think it is great that Jan Perry stopped the business vrom happening. IF they are going to redo the park anyway. What use is the City Money being spent on items that will be removed anyway.

out my window on June 21, 2008, at 10:37PM – #102

pershing square doesn't spend money on anything. go into the park office. it's a junk yard of used office furniture. they have the big meetings in the garage in a old storgae room. paint job please. new sound equipment. lights and a stage please. the fountain has been off for 3 weeks and 5th and Olive is still a pile of dirt. spend some money. hire someone to take care of the up keep of the park. the homeless feel comfortable there because the park looks like a squat house.

Juanito Crandello on June 22, 2008, at 09:48PM – #103

Establishing a sense of magic is mandatory. Something hugely, inately sentimental that keeps 'em coming back year round, year in and year out, sun-up to midnight.

But it is not just the issue of creating magic. The Design Council of MOCA ought to be brought into the picture because the only successfull resolution is a combination of art and magic. Some would love to see Robert Irwin be given overall responsibility and he would then work with whatever landscape, engineering and architectural professionals he would feel comfortable with. Final analysis: overall responsibility for concieving a new solution must go to a major environmental artist, not a design professional. The Downtown art sector should put it's foot down on this aspect.

Anyone who attended the '85 Borofsky/Grooms show at the Contemporary should have an inkling of the direction, this sort of direction that needs to be pursued.

Joel C on June 23, 2008, at 06:19PM – #104

I just want a real park or square. Like they have in NYC and Paris and London and every other major city in the world.

I'm sick of architects constantly "pushing the boundaries" and treating L.A. like their personal laboratory. A park is for the people to use. It must have trees and paths and benches and security and lighting. It must have good circulation and impressive sightlines. It should make people feel good and safe and quiet in the middle of the bustling city.

L.A. is not the first city in the world to have homeless people. Look at NYC. What did they do? Maybe Pershing Square needs a private foundation, a Pershing Square Foundation to make sure the square is taken seriously. Dammit it's not that complicated.

Juanito on June 23, 2008, at 08:27PM – #105

"I'm sick of architects constantly "pushing the boundaries" and treating L.A. like their personal laboratory."

Amen.

"It must have trees and paths and benches and security and lighting."

That's a quaint idea, a pastoral yearning, it wouldn't work out. The Fifth & Hill gang would find this quite acceptable. The previous incarnation had good sightlines, lots of lawn, not many trees (to interrupt the sightlines) and formal circulation and look what happened: Gang Bang time in the park. The landscape design installed following completion of the parking garage featured a large rectangle of lawn. Loitering soon arose and surrounding businesses and property owners began banging the drum at city hall. Diagonal walkways were installed across the lawn. It didn't work out.

"A park is for the people to use."

How do you ward off loitering and grouping (claiming turf) which has negative effects? Gang Bangers do not want to do their thing in a popular place. If you're homeless, where would you want to sleep in public in relative safety in the daytime? Right, on the grass, anywhere where you feel right at home, if you're allowed to. Yet how to prevent such negative outcomes? ONLY way is to not let them feel right at home, you must have an alluring, magnetic element to constantly attract a cross section of the population, a visual feast, a desirable promenade conceived as an artistic, magical expression. After all the problems we've been through with Pershing Square, planting lots of grass and trees and installing lots of benches would be an acute, - just another disaster. And once you've got another disaster on your hands the police department sure doesn't want to budget a full-time officer to contend with problems and parks and rec will try and ignore it and spend as little money as possible. If you create a success, their attitude will be 180 degrees opposite. The visitors and convention bureau's attitude would be all for it, Carol Schatz will jump up and down and Sue Laris and Eric will throw a partay to end all partays.

There should be only one particular stipulation: there would be no professional on-location film activity in the square, ever. No exceptions.

Perhing Square needs to become a place to see and be seen in, forever. La esperanza de un surgir eterno.

Joel C on June 24, 2008, at 08:21AM – #106

(BTW, just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that PSq needs to be as lush as it used to be, back in the forties when it was like a jungle. I just mean to say that it should be designed more like a park or square, rather than a series of "rooms", as Legoretta and Olin conceived.)

I hear you Juanito, and I agree the 5th/Hill gang is a challenge. And you're right, the best antidote to gang activity is to have a ton of people in the park.

All the more reason to assign a full-time officer to the square. Whether the square is grassy or hardscaped, you can't design your way out of the need for full-time policing in a major downtown square.

Union Square in S.F. has cops patrolling Union Square. They not only prevent loitering and indecent exposure, they also deter pickpockets and thieves.

Reality Check on June 24, 2008, at 08:41AM – #107

There are not enough police officers to assign one to Pershing Square only patrol.

Anyone who thinks Pershing Square looks like a prison yard has never been in a real prison yard.

Why hasn't anyone suggested the obvious, locate a cafe in the square (like the one in S.F.'s Union Square) that will keep the flow of positive traffic higher than the negative loitering traffic everyone posting here seems to find so offensive?

Dennis Smith on June 24, 2008, at 10:12AM – #108

Amen to Reality Check and yes, it has been previously suggested in one of last year's comment threads on Pershing Square that a cafe would greatly enhance the area. Both Whitman Lam and I made the suggestion and I still believe an appropriate name would be "Black Jack's" in honor of the square's namesake.

Pasta Man on June 24, 2008, at 01:25PM – #109

Black Jack's outta be a brew pub, indoors and out, 24/7. With all of the officers hanging around ther'll be no problems.

Just an occasional puke, instead of dog turds.

out my window on June 25, 2008, at 10:54AM – #110

pershing square has a cafe. you can't see it because it's behind the escalator. the cafe is only open on days they have the concerts. the people who run the cafe bar b q (?) are not going to be there long. stop by for a hot dog and they will tell you what a problem it is to work with the park people. how about a sign for the cafe .. that would mean spending some of the millions the park has in it's account. how about more lights. how about fixing the fountain. how about putting plants in the entrance. it's crazy! who takes care of this stuff at the park? don't they have a person who is in charge of the fountain and plants and painting? we are to blame because all we do is write to this blog instead of get things done. what community group works with the park who can get something done. how long does it take to fix a fountain ...it's been a month. pershing square was a selling point when i bought my loft. i had a different idea about it then.

Victor Atomic on June 25, 2008, at 10:19PM – #111

Anyone up to come into Pershing Square with a shovel and a rake and keep the joint up?

It makes me sad to see all the tourist who do actually make it into the 'park' with a look of "Is this all of it?"

...

but yep this space is very much wasted I have no clue what drug the previous designers were on. First the statue palm tree walk, the grassy area with the paths to nowhere and the ugly 90's apt. building stucco walls and balls.

:)

Urban Trojan on June 26, 2008, at 01:36PM – #112

Some lofties are so concerned about the place that on their website, they prominently feature pics of their pooch taking a crap on the grass at Pershing Square. Interesting.

Desert Bruin on June 26, 2008, at 06:00PM – #113

With money kicked in by Park Fifth, the CRA and perhaps even Quimby, there looks to be enough to do it right. But is Park Fifth real or is it virtual? I'll believe that $9.1 million when I read that the check has been cashed.