Jamison on May 28, 2009, at 04:43PM – #1

there was so much traffic... this is pretty scary

Matt on May 28, 2009, at 10:52PM – #2

i love cars so much

ubrayj02 on May 29, 2009, at 09:40AM – #3

How's this for a headline the next time there is a shooting with bystanders injured or killed, "Bullet shatters lives. Gun owner reported to be shaken but in good condition."?

Your reporting on this, and the LAPD's summary, are insane and irresponsible.

This bad driver smashed into two human beings and a building. Why must the philosophical word play come into this story and absolve the driver of his responsibility, making an "out of control" car or a "medical condition" the villain?

Do they teach this at a school somewhere? When someone hurts two people and destroys part of a building they are personally at fault in the news stories and police report that follow. Somehow using a car to do all of this damage makes the driver a victim in this too. Sheesh. As I said - insane and irresponsible reporting.

Jasmijn on May 29, 2009, at 10:46AM – #4

Well, one assumes that people are not using guns to do ordinary, everyday things like getting from point A to point B (as, say, you would a car), or using them to weigh oranges, or whatever, when something goes horribly wrong and the bullet exits the gun and kills innocent bystanders. The car was not designed intentionally as an instrument of killing, and very few people get in one thinking they might have to hurt someone with it that day - that's a tragic side effect when things go badly awry.

How awful for everyone involved. I hope for the best for all parties.

Gene on May 29, 2009, at 01:17PM – #5

I wait for the bus there, usually standing about 7-10 feet from the path of the car. It wouldn't have hit me, but I would've needed clean underwear if I left early yesterday!!

ubrayj02 on May 29, 2009, at 01:51PM – #7

740+ traffic deaths in LA County, 86,000+ injuries every year ... I'm sorry but your "Cars aren't designed to hurt people" line is a sad joke. Clearly cars are used to hurt and kill people. Lots of people.

"Homicide" takes fewer lives than traffic each year in L.A.

By not placing the blame on bad drivers and street designs incompatible with safety for pedestrians and other modal user groups, articles like this reinforce this type of "Oh, the poor driver" attitude.

And as a further rebuttal, I am sure you're familiar with the famous quote, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

ubrayj02 on May 29, 2009, at 03:08PM – #9

Here is how your report reads: "Fist punches man in head. Hand owner reported to be injured but in good condition. Fist swung in crowded room due to medical condition, police report."

"Bullets enter person's body and cause failure of heart, LAPD reports. The individual holding the gun reported that they lost control of the weapon. Gun holder suffered slight injuries during the incident, but is pulling through."

There is a well-established pattern of main-stream journalists using linguistic/philisophical perversions to avoid assigning blame to drivers who screwed up, and "lost control" of their 3,000 lbs grocery getter. Everyone may be reporting on traffic injuries and crashes this way, but it doesn't make it right. A woman was killed on 5th and Flower recently, and this sort of reporting makes her death (and others) seem like just another day in the big city.

In other big cities, they take this stuff seriously, and the media cover these stories differently. We shouldn't have to worry about crazy/sick/bad drivers swerving out of control onto sidewalk and plowing into us as we go about our daily routines in the city.

We die. on May 29, 2009, at 03:38PM – #10

We die of cancer, of heart attacks, of AIDS, in war. We die from murder, from accidents, and sometimes, at our own hand.

"We shouldn't have to worry about crazy/sick/bad drivers swerving out of control onto sidewalk and plowing into us as we go about our daily routines in the city."

Well, no we shouldn't to worry about them, but they're gonna be there from time to time. Sometimes, the driver is drunk and he plows over us. Sometimes, he drives into a bank. Regardless of our worry or lack thereof, shitty drivers are out there.

We allow ourselves to use cellphones, calling and texting while we drive. We grab for something in the backseat while we drive. We operate an object that has the chance to kill others, and allow ourselves to fraction our attention. Why? Because we're selfish and stupid and have no regard for other people.

We all die.

ubrayj02 on May 29, 2009, at 04:25PM – #11

You're missing my point.

Watch this short film: http://tinyurl.com/2awu4u

It is very easy and cheap to make our streets safer. Driver negligence ought not to be excused by American reporter's stylistic choices.

Any by the way, Ed, I wasn't responding to your comment, I was responding to Jasmijn's. I'm a fan of blogdowntown, and of your work. This particular thing plays out over and over again in print - bad driver screws up and kills/injures people; bad driver is allowed to walk away with a pat on the back and a stern warning. If you hurt someone with a car, you should lose the privilege to operate one!

Jasmijn on May 29, 2009, at 06:55PM – #13

Just to clarify, and mostly because it seems to have become such an important point in this discussion, I also didn't say "Cars aren't designed to hurt people."

What I said -- and you can check, above -- was "The car was not designed intentionally as an instrument of killing" in contrast to guns and bullets, which were, and with which Ubray's initial comment equated cars. I'm not claiming that things that weren't designed specifically to hurt people are therefore never used to (like, say, a heavy paperweight used as an instrument of attack). I'm merely disputing the intent, and in this case, I fail to see the deliberate intent, on anybody's part, to injure or kill innocent pedestrians, or even elderly drivers.

The Dude on May 29, 2009, at 09:57PM – #14

Sorry, until there are licenses for cyclists and proper enforcement of traffic rules (which govern ALL modes--pedestrian, cycle, vehicle), I cannot condone encouraging more people to cycle.

Too many cyclists do so irresponsibly around here, darting on or off the sidewalk as it suits them. In LA, you CAN ride on the sidewalk, but YOU MUST YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS WHEN YOU DO SO AND WALK YOUR BIKE THROUGH CROSSWALKS!! If you ride in the street, you ride WITH TRAFFIC and follow all traffic laws.

I'm sick of cyclists as a pedestrian, having to dodge them or be run into by them because they are riding far too fast on the sidewalk, and I am tired of nearly hitting them at intersections when they ride against traffic, often on the sidewalk, and fly into an intersection as I am making a left turn. This is dangerous to the cyclist and to the motorist, yet happens all the time.

And saying cars are an instrument of death is just so far over-the-top that you discredit your larger point, ubrayj.

ubrayj02 on May 30, 2009, at 09:35AM – #15

"THE DUDE" - quite a nice troll comment, but do a little bit of research and you'll see that, in fact, automobiles are instruments of death.

More people die in traffic than are murdered in LA County annually. Many thousands more are injured in traffic crashes. In this country, we decided (at some point) to disregard the responsibility drivers ought to have for their actions. We also collectively decided to disregard road planning that considers the safety of bicyclists and pedestrians. Those are facts, and those facts are borne out by the toll in human lives and ruined bodies produced every day in Los Angeles.

My opinion is born out of facts. I don't believe yours has the same wieght of evidence behind it.

Nek Somar on May 30, 2009, at 12:57PM – #17

ubrayj02 - My friend blacked out while driving. He is not a bad driver as you claimed. Trust me, I know him personally. The car drove into the bank while he was blacked out and injured him and some pedestrians. He is in no way claiming that he is not responsible. Things are what they are, and written words can be interpreted many different ways. Some reporters report as they see it based on current fact. And the fact is.... things are what they are. Only God knows which one of us will black out next...

ubrayj02 on May 30, 2009, at 01:43PM – #18

Things certainly are what they are. Let's hope that your airline pilot doesn't black out the next time he's coming in for a landing, things being what they are. I wonder what the you'd want the airline company to say to you after that happened? Would you be able to sue the company? Do you think it would be fair if the pilot was taken to court for flying an aircraft with a medical condition that a reasonable person would conclude makes their operation of that aircraft unsafe?

The way this article, and other like it, are written is to absolve the operator of the automobile from any perception of fault. It takes a great deal of linguistic contortion to avoid saying "Car Driver X jumped the curb, hit two people, and smashed into a bank building today."

Cars, like guns and airplanes, don't operate themselves. it is irresponsible to write about things in this fashion.

Juanito on May 30, 2009, at 04:02PM – #19

Once upon a time I stood on top of the ARCO parking garage watching progress of construction of the stainless steel clad Wells Fargo Tower (lately the 444 Building/presently Citicorp Center). That was before the construction of the YMCA. Screetch and crash!: a driver in the second lane from the right hand side on Fifth Street (one way) turned left across all other west bound lanes so as to go south on Flower and another driver hit him while driving at a much higher speed. This second car careened over the curb at the southwest corner and plowed into the base of the pedway escalators which lead up/over Fifth to the Bonaventure.

I'll never forget the businessman who performed a miraculous Stan Laurel/Buster Keaton tippy-toe dance to get out of the way of that car. If he hadn't of gyrated those six inches, he would have been hamburger.

Norbie 7 on May 30, 2009, at 04:21PM – #20

"CAR CRASHES INTO BANK!"

Michael Milken and Bernie Maadoff were last seen running down the Metro escalators, hand in hand, destined for the Virgin Islands via the Blue and Green lines and LAX.

In her very high high heels, Faye Dunaway went running after them yelling "You forgot the cash, you idiots!"

High up in the sumptuous elevator lobby of Tim Vreeland's Home Savings Tower, Warren Beatty then yelled "Cut!"

caroline on June 03, 2009, at 07:11AM – #21

i hate to read stories like this. in this case the photo caught my eye too. too bad about the car. that's a great wagon. guess it'll be parted out now.

Gene on June 04, 2009, at 04:32PM – #22

Has there been any follow-up as to the health of those injured???