gkam on October 22, 2009, at 09:17AM – #1

what a shame -- shomof is definitely doing something good for the neighborhood. i should have taken pictures while they were still up...just goes to show you that you shouldn't taken anything for granted, especially in this town

DawnC on October 22, 2009, at 09:26AM – #2

I have a friend that lives across the street from the Hayward and we've often admired the geraniums in those flower boxes while sitting on his fire escape balcony. It's really a shame that they have to be taken down. They are very well maintained and add a much needed pop of color to the facade. I understand the ability to save lives being a priority but what about quality of life in the meantime?

Ravi on October 22, 2009, at 12:48PM – #3

Is there a planter or an empty tree well or ANYTHING nearby where these plants can go?!?! (somewhere not impeding pedestrians, traffic, or ladders)

Are they going to be donated or R E M O V E D ?

Joseph on October 22, 2009, at 12:51PM – #4

Do the planters get in the way of the F.D. ladders? Is it possible to see the picture that was sent showing the ladder raised to a landing?

6th and Spring on October 22, 2009, at 12:59PM – #5

This is a travesty. Are there not other, more pressing safety issues for the LAFD to be concerned about? Those flower boxes are a wonderful contribution to our neighborhood (I live across the street) and must be wonderful for the residents who are otherwise exposed to nothing but noise and exhaust. How petty.

Robert on October 22, 2009, at 01:10PM – #7

This is ridiculous. Downtown LA is the worst city for flowers...there are none compared to other cities. The inspector needs to spend time on Broadway and address the garbage blocking the doorways of those junky shops. As a BID taxpayer, the BID needs to improve upon the landscaping in Downtown. I hope the owner can stop this. And to the BID...more flowers create pedestrian friendly streets!

Tom Gilmore on October 22, 2009, at 01:33PM – #8

It is indeed senseless. The City and many of its departments have lost sight of the overall quality of life downtown and are instead selectively enforcing codes to the 'letter of the law'. The priorities of this and other departments have become skewed. Instead of partnering with the Downtown community as they have in the past, the new guard seems intent on preserving their bureaucracy while ignoring the real challenges that we face in making Downtown safer, cleaner and more livable for all.The Mayor's office, Councilman Huizar's office and Councilwoman Perry's office need to take leadership here and help set the priorities for the City Departments that engage the Downtown Community and effect its future.

Dennis Smith on October 22, 2009, at 01:49PM – #9

I know Brian Humphrey is off duty until October 30 but can any other LAFD Public Information Officer jump in and address these valid concerns?

Joe on October 22, 2009, at 02:00PM – #10

Well, as beautiful as the flower boxes are, there are other ways to beautify the city. And safety in the case of a fire takes priority, don't you think?

Brian Humphrey on October 22, 2009, at 04:33PM – #11

Eric, thanks for posting this story. Mr. Shomof, thanks for the photo ..and Dennis, thank you for noting that I am technically off-duty until the 30th.

While I may be physically away from Los Angeles and yes, off-the-clock, please know I am very much connected to the City that I love and proudly serve at all hours.

That much offered, I can certainly place my "off-duty self" - who spends a good deal of time downtown, as personally appreciative of the flower's appearance. :)

Professionally, I can also see and understand the letter of the law within the Los Angeles Fire Code:

http://LAFD.ORG/Code.htm

... a living document (that can and does change), to which your LAFD Inspectors are sworn to enforce without fail or special consideration to any person or entity.

As a firefighter who may be called on a cold and windy night (I know, it sounds dramatic) to rescue residents down such a fire escape that has been sprayed with streams from a fire hose, I know I would want every opportunity for myself and those I am assisting to have a sturdy and uninhibited handhold to prevent a fatal fall.

Similarly, while a small spray of flowers seems innocuous, where does one draw the line?

Seeing the bougainvillea in my backyard get waaaay out of control in three weeks time, is there really some standard that could be uniformly enforced regarding the type of plant and its maintenance?

While those fire escapes and flowers do indeed appear nice, would a Fire Inspector need to visit more regularly to check for rust induced by plant vines or interfering with ladder mechanisms?

I know, it is a fair deal of rhetoric - but when all is said and done, we must give rightful weight to the fact that they are fire escapes.

So, where do we go from here?

While I take great pride in knowing our Inspectors are consistent and attentive to detail, there is never any harm in conferring with their supervisors and the Battalion Chief Officers who would guide any firefighting effort at the Hayward. This way, any changes, including a "removal order" can be instituted in a manner that optimizes both safety and esthetics.

I would warmly welcome the Owner and/or Property Manager of the Hayward Hotel to contact the Fire Marshal's Office () and the Battalion 1 Office () directly, to schedule a meeting at which the matter could be more directly addressed.

Respectfully Yours in Safety and Service,

Brian Humphrey Firefighter/Specialist Public Service Officer Los Angeles Fire Department

Drew L on October 22, 2009, at 09:29PM – #12

Is the inspector who's getting his panties in a knot over this matter one of those mindless, rules-by-the-numbers bureacrats? Sort of similar to the police officers who love handing out tickets to well-dressed jaywalkers while looking the other way at numerous homeless people who are boozing and snorting white stuff out in the open?

It seems to me that the Hayward, since it has an old-fashioned outer-wall staircase to begin with, automatically is safer and more fire-fighting friendly than most newer buildings whose occupants, if they try to walk past the ledge of a window, will end up in a crash landing.

Russell Brown on October 23, 2009, at 01:30AM – #13

Brian, Thanks for your help on this. We did have 4 officers explaining the ordinance to us. They sited no flexibility. Any common sense help you can give would be appreciated.

Since theflowers are purposely on the outside of the fire escapes so as to provide maximum passage, would a solution be to move the planters to the lower portion of the outside banister? That way the top is clear and the ladder contact is not impeded. But the flowers can remain unobstructively along the lower bottom clear of the ladder. Russ ED of Historic Downtown BID

Erik on October 23, 2009, at 02:52AM – #14

Fire escapes are there for the sole purpose of allowing persons to escape a fire.

For those who think it's OK to adorn a fire escape with flowers, I ask if's also OK to place flowers on the steps and/or landings in your high-rise office buildings fire stairway.

Yes, flowers can make a fire escape look more friendly, but let's not ever forget -- safety first!

JM on October 23, 2009, at 09:15AM – #15

Kudos to Mr. Humphrey for responding in such a professional and timely manner. With all this back-and-forth, it's starting to really sound like a neighborhood community. It's come to bickering over the aesthetics of flowers on fire escapes :)

Joe on October 23, 2009, at 11:40AM – #16

Many of you are projecting your desperation to make DTLA more aesthetically pleasing on this flower issue. Give it a rest and aim your envy elsewhere. Aren't you happy that we have a costly new dog run on 2nd street between Spring and Main?

The Fire Dept knows that if, even despite their efforts, a blaze took some lives in the Hayward and those flower boxes came into issue, they could be sued because they allowed a known obstruction -- an obstruction identified on the books -- to exist. To wit, they are attempting to save their own asses along with the residents in danger.

I'm all for an effort to make largely-skanky DTLA better looking but fire codes are fire codes for a reason. Getting rid of the human feces from the sidewalks would be a fun, neighborhood project but that would mean forcing the city to provide places for people to go to the bathroom.

Vero Queero on October 23, 2009, at 02:31PM – #17

Notice how quickly some bureaucratic actions take place, while others languish in bureaucratic black holes?

Chad Schlotterback on October 24, 2009, at 09:46AM – #18

Erik writes:

Fire escapes are there for the sole purpose of allowing persons to escape a fire.

For those who think it's OK to adorn a fire escape with flowers, I ask if's also OK to place flowers on the steps and/or landings in your high-rise office buildings fire stairway.

Yes, flowers can make a fire escape look more friendly, but let's not ever forget -- safety first!

Well said, I'm with Erik. Flowers are nice, but people not being burned alive is better.

Respectfully,

Chad

Dee on October 24, 2009, at 11:31AM – #19

For those who think it's OK to adorn a fire escape with flowers, I ask if's also OK to place flowers on the steps and/or landings in your high-rise office buildings fire stairway.

If the flowers were in boxes attached to the wall and situated well above the height of an average person? Yea, why not?

The flower boxes at the Hayward are resting on the railing, on the OUTER side of the railing at that.

I'd say we should all be far more concerned about the structural integrity of older buildings, and structures in general, in the event of the predicted huge earthquake. So that big red X, or warning sign, in LA's future doesn't pertain to fires. It pertains to the earth moving like Jell-o.

We should all be so lucky if flower boxes attached to a fire escape (to its outer side, no less) is all we had to be worried about. If anything, it would make more sense to fret about those boxes falling during a quake, or the fire escape they're sitting on being so old (and suffering from hidden corrosive rust?) as to come apart at the seams.

bp on October 26, 2009, at 03:18PM – #20

i understand the fire department's concern but these flower boxes are facing out and only using the top of the fire escape matel bar (a hook or bracket). it's not blocking any useable space on the fire escape. this is over governing.

if the flower pots are sitting on top of (floor) the fire escape like you see in countless movies than maybe that can be a problem but this looks like a win win situation.