El Dabe Sherif on April 07, 2010, at 02:57PM – #1

Generally, I am a fan of Trutanich but I am not a fan of these types of injunctions. The drug policy in America is so fractured, that more laws just muddy up the water. Forbidding "entry into a zone" by "specific individual" sounds too big brotherish. Where is the due process? Do each of these individuals get a right to be heard or challenge their inclusion on that list? How about tossing the list, and arresting the perpetrators of actual crimes. If they have the evidence, the perpetrator is convicted. With enough convictions, come more jail time. We accomplish the same goal, with less laws, less politicking, and due process.

J-M on April 07, 2010, at 04:51PM – #3

Although the ACLU has been involved in some very worthy fights, this is one area where they have it all wrong (I am making the assumption that the hecklers were ACLU people). I'm all in favor of helping the homeless and I think it's shameful that this kind of open sore can fester in the shadow of City Hall. But I think targeting drug dealers is a great place to start in making Skid Row safer. Dealers openly hang out around rehab centers. How is that a civil right? That's unacceptable! I see people dealing Downtown in broad daylight. I know many others on this forum could give you the exact times and locations of where these guys are on a daily basis. When we bust people for jay-walking, but dealing is OK, we have a problem. As far as I'm concerned, they should arrest the dealers and (when they let them go early due to over-crowded prisons) they should let them out in the desert near the State line with Nevada or Arizona, in sparsely populated areas, not back into the urban center of one of the biggest cities in the world. This is not NIMBYism, it's to protect those who preyed on day after day in Skid Row (including women and children) while we sit back and do nothing. I expect some flames in response, but I'm starting to get really pissed at these people who are very vocal but don't seem to have a coherent agenda.

J-M on April 07, 2010, at 05:10PM – #5

Thanks for the clarification, Eric.

Lif Encompass on April 07, 2010, at 05:40PM – #7

Thumbs up, push out the pushers.

El Dabe Sherif on April 07, 2010, at 07:18PM – #9

oooookay...so the drug dealers and gang members are forbidden from going in the area. SO what are you going to do? Arrest them? Why not just arrest them for the criminal activity they were committing in the first place? Why would they obey the injunction when they don't obey the laws against drug dealing? SO maybe the penalty for violating the injunction is worse that the penalties for dealing drugs and this is supposed to be some greater deterrent. I doubt it. Convicts are in and out of jail. County jail convicts serve 10 to 30% of the sentence. They will be out and right back to the same corners.

Maybe this is just a PR move by the government.

And I live in South Park, with a baby on the way, and I too wish the area was safer with less crime.

There are other solutions and they should be debated. but I am not sure this will work.

J-M on April 07, 2010, at 08:38PM – #10

I agree that it may be impractical in some respects, but I think we have to start somewhere. We can't just do nothing. It hasn't worked before and it won't work in the future. As with all complex situations, I think there's no silver bullet but rather a holistic approach is needed. We need to push out the dealers (or neuter their trade), but we also need to support the people who live on Skid Row and help them find more permanent housing in a safe environment. I think the Skid Row walks are a great way to raise awareness and I think there should be more community involvement, in addition to law enforcement solutions.

J-M on April 07, 2010, at 08:42PM – #11

Btw, Eric, like the new look on the site. Is there any way to incorporate hyperlinks to external sites within the story, like LACAN above? I thought the same thing about yesterday's story on affordable housing projects.

Dixon on April 07, 2010, at 09:10PM – #12

Is it possible to post the names of the drug dealers here? It should be public record at this point.

Lt Paul Vernon on April 07, 2010, at 10:30PM – #13

Some legit concerns about the injunction for skidrow. Let me start with a little story that might illustrate the point.

One year ago on Easter Sunday, before the sun had even risen, two men were dead inside the Lamp Lodge at 6th and Stanford, one block from Gladys Park.

The two dead were a drug dealer and a bystander by the name of KK, a one-time movie consultant and self-styled homeless advocate. Turns out the shooter was an ELA gang member, who was an apparent gun for hire, because that morning, he accepted an offer to kill the drug dealer for another drug dealer.

Neither of the dealers nor the shooter lived in Skidrow, but went there daily to handout their dope for locals to sell for them, only to return in the afternoon and collect their "grip."

The only person who lived in skidrow and would be considered homeless was KK, the only person involved in the incident who was truly innocent of any misbehavior.

Both the drug dealers would have been likely candidates for today's injunction. If they did not have them already, it would be a matter of time before they had three arrests and three CONVICTIONS for narcotics or assault in skidrow. As such, they might have been excluded from skidrow and subject to arrest for merely entering the restricted area.

Had either of these drug dealers been excluded from skidrow, KK, the only person with a true, legitimate connection to skidrow and the only one among the four men who was homeless, WOULD still be alive today.

So you ask, where's the due process in all this? That's first in the THREE convictions by jury or plea bargain for SELLING drugs or committing assaults. Then on top of that, the due process comes in when each of the 80 career, convicted criminals are SERVED with notice of the injuction and given 45 days to tell the judge why they should not be in the injunction.

Then, once a JUDGE approves the injunction and is convinced the persons enjoined should be excluded from the area because of their past, violent, and predatory behavior, any enjoined party can merely be arrested by the police for a misdemeanor crime of violating the restraining order.

From there, the violator will go to court and explain to the judge why he violated the order. Not convinced, the JUDGE can then send the person to jail for 6 months.

Now you ask, WHY is that better than just arresting them for drug dealing?

Well, we'll still do that if we catch them and then prove in court that they were selling the dope. But that is a much more difficult thing to do. Think how many rocks a dealer sells before he ever gets caught? How many lives does that person affect and even threaten in that process.

But now, consider this. What if the police can arrest this dealer just for driving or walking into the area? Don't have to find the dope, book the evidence, appear as prelim hearing, etc. All the judge needs to know is....he was there and knew he should not be there, and now he goes away for 6 months. Fair warning, the judge says, don't go back again.

What adult, what child, can't understand all that fair warning. I wonder what KK's opinion would have been on all this? I'll let you answer that for yourself.

Lt. Paul Vernon, LAPD (downtown)

General Jeff on April 08, 2010, at 04:35AM – #17

I have been approached by several Skid Row stakeholders and asked, "Why would they hold this type of press conference at Gladys Park where so much grass-roots positive programming is being created by the community instead of having it at San Julian Park where most of the drug activity takes place?"

I have no answer to that.

I can only speculate that the parties involved in this press conference tried to avoid the protesters, while remembering what happened to the Mayor when protesters( some of these same folks) heckled him during a press conference.

As a community leader with a strong track record for positivity, I feel slighted to have not even been invited. I found out through my connections in the community.

But going back to my original statement, it seems that people in Skid Row are confused by the choice of venue, especially when the press conference took place on the NIKE-donated basketball court that is home to the award-winning Skid Row 3on3 Streetball League and a park that has positive groups and events such as the Skid Row Boxing Club, Art in the Park and just recently had the "Easter at Gladys Park" event that featured the Skid Row Artist's Collective that has been a part of the Downtown Art Walk every month since November.

I have a meeting with LAPD this week and will be bringing up this and other issues.

Robert on April 08, 2010, at 07:15AM – #18

Having witnessed drug deals...I often wonder why the city allows this drug trade to happen daily. This injuction is good for Los Angeles and good for Downtown. Lt. Vernon, I never see foot patrols Downtown. Is that something we will see in the future? I hope so.

Lt Paul Vernon on April 08, 2010, at 08:17AM – #19

Robert, We conduct foot patrols everyday. And while I work detectives, I took walk through downtown every day and see the foot patrols.

We have officers on foot and on bicycle every day walking through skidrow, the fashion district, pershing square, down the major corridors like 5th, 6th, and 7th Streets.

We also have an Eastside Detail, a group of officers who are up very early in the morning, checking on the persons sleeping on the sidewalks. At 6am, these officers help anyone get services they need, remind them to breakdown their tents, and facilitate getting the streets cleaned up for the start of day.

We also place Ol' Blue, a large blue police van in various places in skidrow, to remind the drug dealers and the residents the police are around. The officers can write a report or get other things from the van without having to go all the way back to the station, which would take them out of the field.

Periodically, some of my detectives and myself even dress in our uniforms and we walk through skidrow and other parts of downtown, which gives an appearance of more officers and lets the detectives get a better sense of where crime is happening, why it's happening there, and how we can stop it.

Dixon on April 08, 2010, at 08:39AM – #20

Lt Paul Vernon, is the police aware of the drug dealing taking place in the Lorraine Hotel? Why hasn't this place been busted?

Lt Paul Vernon on April 08, 2010, at 08:48AM – #21

I, personally, am not aware of activity at the Lorraine Hotel, but I will talk to the narcotics unit and, if they don't already know, they will now. Thanks for the info.

Hope you all know that you can text a tip anonymously from your phone to CRIMES then put LAPD in the subject line.

You explain your tip, names, addresses, etc, and that will get sent to me anonymously if it deals with downtown. We get several tips a week and many are very good leads.

Dixon on April 08, 2010, at 09:07AM – #22

Thank you, Lt Paul Vernon. The Lorriane Hotel dealing is a busy, highly organized operation. The sells are done by people on the other side of the locked mesh door in the small upstairs lobby. The place even has regular hours of operation, complete with breaks and closures during certain holidays! They'll be open today--unless their spotters report that it's too hot police-wise--from about 10 am to 2 pm. Then they'll close for a few hours and reopen around 4 pm.

Henry on April 08, 2010, at 01:55PM – #26

Carmen Trutanich is a true leader with a vision and the courage to take bold actions to benefit the city of Los Angeles. We residents of downtown Thank You much Trutanich, for your leadership and courage. Its easy to let the status quo remain, and many, especially LACAN, will wail and scream against any changes to life as usual in skid row - even if that life as usual includes habitual drug use, and rampant drug dealing, and other criminal activities including murder. LACAN used to have the noble cause of helping defend the rights of the poor, but they have evolved into an organization that is very vocal and active in defending drug dealers, and one has to wonder why. I wish they would revert to their goal of defending the rights of the poor, not criminals. There is a difference. Also, Thanks much to you Lt. Paul Vernon for your service, commitment, and your involvement and communication on this blog. This type of thread is the best of what a blog can be. (Thanks Ed and Eric too).

General Jeff on April 08, 2010, at 02:04PM – #27

Robert, I can attest that LAPD uses foot patrols in Skid Row as well as bike and horse patrols frequently.

Lt. Paul Vernon is correct when commenting about "Ol Blue". The community is aware of her presence and I personally have seen the significance of the big van that looks like the one from the old SWAT television show! Is that her?

LoftLiving on April 08, 2010, at 02:53PM – #28

As a resident of downtown (inside the inunction zone), I FULLY support the injunction. My mother is a card carrying member of the ACLU...I often agree with the ACLU. NOT IN THIS CASE.

If these drug dealers were camping out in westside neighborhood or where ever you live, you might SUPPORT this move too. It's about time to try this!!!!! Downtown derserves respect.

Robert on April 08, 2010, at 03:12PM – #29

Glad to hear about the foot patrols. I mostly walk down Broadway and Spring and there are times I wish there was more of a police presence. There are going to be a lot of new residents in the historic core over the next few months with the Blackstone, Barry Shy bldg, Medallion, Rowan, El Dorado, Arcade bldg, Bristol Hotel. With these injunctions, the Historic Core and areas around skid row can be a very safe and desirable place to live for all Downtowners.

Dixon on April 11, 2010, at 09:38AM – #32

Unless it's the weekend (when the heroin dealers work all day), the dealers usually work in two shifts. The first one begins around 7:30 am and goes to 9:30 am. The second one (and busiest) begins around 4 pm and continues until about 6:30 pm. Try walking your mother through before or after the main shifts.

Daina Beth Solomon on April 12, 2010, at 02:12AM – #35

Wait a sec. So they can't go between 3rd & 9th and Central & Broadway. Will they start selling drugs between 3rd and 2nd then? How about between 9th and 10th? Or right off Broadway? Is there a plan for dealing with this overflow? Sounds like we might be pushing drug dealing into other parts of Downtown without eradicating it.

Amy on April 12, 2010, at 05:47AM – #36

Good point Daina, I hadn't thought of that. Hopefully the police has!

narconon on January 26, 2011, at 04:04AM – #37

I wish I were more optimistic about this initiative but I can't help not see the failures in the past. We have a Drug War that has been lost, a local initiative won't change the situation by much. The way I see things, drugs will stay here for a while, we need a new national movement against them...

downtown vibe on August 24, 2011, at 12:52PM – #38

It seems to me that far more cameras are needed.

bigphatcatlover on August 25, 2011, at 01:11PM – #39

"While the move was lauded by business and law enforcement, opposition was quick to appear in protests by LACAN and its supporters."

REALLY??? Why on earth would anyone oppose an effort to eliminate an attempt to rid the community of this cancer? I only wish they would extend it to include the entire downtown area. And why not arrest the people on the list? Let's do both! Then they won't spill out onto the rest of the downtown streets. One caveat: When they are released from jail, let's not dump them right onto skid row, as has been the usual practice.

How about putting ankle trackers on all convicted drug dealers and gang members? Then we'll know where they are at all times. OK, I'm sure that would get the ACLU's panties in a bunch - but C'MON! We must reclaim our community if we are to grow and thrive.

on August 26, 2011, at 12:33PM – #40

So the Los Angeles Community Action Network, which protects the civil (and presumably other) rights of the unfortunate people who live in skid row, is protesting an injunction that would keep out a group of nonresidents who come there solely to prey on them and other passers-through?!

I'm glad they're not looking after my rights. Anyone who puts drug dealers and killers ahead of me isn't really looking out for me, are they? With friends like these...

I do agree this is not a silver bullet and won't solve all the problems and isn't entirely simple to do and all that. But I agree more with people who say that every step helps, and we have to do something while we try to find what would work.

Thanks to Lt Vernon for explaining the process and the plan behind this. For those of us who are not in this field, it's sometimes unclear. Good job, thank you, and good luck, LAPD.